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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Who is unreasonable here? Custody.

41 replies

MrSpock · 25/07/2018 18:53

This is happening to a family member. I know her side far more than his but I’ve tried to write this in an unbiased manner.

A couple, let’s call them Sarah and Tom, were dating for two months. Both uni students. Sarah unexpectedly fell pregnant. Tom wanted Sarah to get an abortion, Sarah refused. Toms very posh family tried to bully Sarah into an abortion, Sarah refused and was very offended as they know her family are catholic and she is against abortion.

Sarah and Tom try to make the relationship work but several issues arise. Tom is from a posh family and Sarah is working class, and comments made by Toms family about council houses around Sarah make her feel uncomfortable. Tom is also very close to his mother, to the point that he will not do anything without his mother’s agreement and opinion first. Sarah is unhappy with this. Tom also wants to know what Sarah is doing every moment of every day and bombards her with texts, getting abusive if she doesn’t reply fast enough. If Sarah retaliates, Tom complains to his mother who chastises Sarah.

On two occasions, Tom is violent towards Sarah including coercing her into a sexual situation.

Sarah has pregnancy complications which mean she is at risk of early labour, and Tom decides to leave the country and tell Sarah he doesnt feel he can cope with a baby.

Sarah tells Tom she’s had enough, and to leave her alone. Tom responds by sending nude photographs of Sarah to his friends, sending text messages to her threatening suicide and threatening her. He accuses her of having an affair.

Sarah cuts all contact. Tom suddenly decides he wants to be on the baby’s birth cert. Sarah says no. Tom decides he wants to be at the birth. Sarah says no. Tom then bombards Sarah with abusive phonecalls.

Sarah has her baby without Tom. She tells Tom he can visit, at prior agreed times and only when she has a family member with her. Tom does this but ignores the child and uses the time to insult and berate Sarah. Sarah cuts all contact and tells Tom she doesn’t want him near her or the child.

Sarah stays in touch with Toms parents and allows them to visit occasionally. Tom continued his university course and did not offer to pay any maintenance to Sarah. Now Tom has finished uni he has expressed an interest in visiting the child. Sarah meanwhile dropped out of university in order to support her child, and has another partner and a new life. Sarah’s partner treats Sarah’s child as if he were the child’s father.

Sarah agreed but on the grounds that she not be there and so left the child with her mother on the day Tom came. Tom quizzed Sarah’s mother about Sarahs partner as he had apparently seen on Facebook she was in a relationship, and also sent Sarah messages regarding this and told her he still loved her. Tom also went home after an hour even though Sarah had arranged for the entire day.

Sarah now doesn’t feel comfortable with Tom seeing the child, as she feels Tom is using the child to get to her. She also feels she is happy and settled and doesn’t want to upset her life. She’s also annoyed he’s never paid maintenance.

However Tom tells anyone who will listen Sarah is a horrible ex who won’t let him see the child.

Who is being unreasonable? I feel quite strongly that it’s Tom who’s behaving like an idiot, but would welcome others opinions.

OP posts:
Graphista · 25/07/2018 19:34

Maintenance and contact are separate issues - legally and morally.

Afaic he's forfeited his contact rights due to his behaviour - he certainly isn't entitled to see Sarah!

If he is serious about building a relationship with his son he will use a contact centre etc - but I doubt he will based on what we know here.

RideOn · 25/07/2018 19:34

*Tom has behaved illegally at least three times. Tom is an abusive idiot. Tom needs to pay maintenance in spite of this. Tom does not deserve contact unless he proves his commitment to his child and can treat Sarah with respect. That seems doubtful.

Sarah should keep a record of all abuse and if necessary log it with the authorities.*

This ^

Allergictoironing · 25/07/2018 19:35

It isn't clear from the OP whether Tom actually is on the birth certificate or not. If he isn't, then he has no rights whatsoever I thought? If he is, then he has a maintenance liability and potentially some contact. As others have said, he can't have it all ways!

oracle2811 · 25/07/2018 19:37

He sent naked photos of her too his friends? That is illegal and can be very damaging to Sarah. Yes let him be involved in DC life, but please report evrrything he has done, tell him to obtain a Contact Order, which you can stipulate the reasons why you want Supervised Contact only.

Please go through CSA and start making him pay, also block all your Social Media accounts and put all settings to private.

Do not let him control you anymore. What a disgusting little runt.

FrayedHem · 25/07/2018 19:37

Tom is unreasonable. He is also abusive and potentially has access to money to spend on legal expenses. This would make me nervous for Sarah and I think offering the contact supervised by Sarah's mother is a good interim solution. I wonder if Sarah can access some kind of legal advice. My concern would be about him seeking to gain PR and all the aggravation that could bring Sarah and her partner. Shitheads like Tom often find a loophole out of paying CMS, particularly if they have wealthy parents who are willing to enable it.

sonjadog · 25/07/2018 19:40

If I were Sarah, I’d think no contact was a good idea and be hoping Tom disappeared once and for all. If that is what she wants, then I think you should be supporting her decision, OP, not trying to force a contact that she doesn’t want.

BlueBug45 · 25/07/2018 19:42

If Sarah doesn't report the violence and harrassment plus allow Tom to see the child, then Tom can go to court in future and argue for more residency citing her as being unreasonable. (As he's spiteful and controlling he will probably do so.)

The judge will then have no choice but to grant him it as there would be no evidence to show otherwise. It would also look like Sarah was deliberately stopping the child having a relationship with their father due to made up accusations.

If the harassment continues Sarah can and should get a court order to get him to leave her alone but she should take steps herself first to attempt to minimise it - hence the social media blocking and only communicating with him by email.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 25/07/2018 19:43

I think Tom wants to "be involved" because this is a way that he can continue to abuse and bully Sarah. He may even try to alienate her baby's factions later on.

I don't see how she can stop him being involved, unfortunately - s the biological father he has "rights" even though he is a mysogynistic controlling twat (unfortunately).

However she may be able to influence where, when and under what circumstances - and she is also entitled to maintenance.

If she can prove the "shaming" photographs, I would hope it would go a long way towards his contact being restricted.

donquixotedelamancha · 25/07/2018 19:47

I’ve tried to write this in an unbiased manner

Well, you failed miserably at that; but given Tom is a fucking psycho, I doubt anyone will mind.

  • Tell her to pursue CM though the CSA. It's her kid's money.
  • She needs to go to the police about those threats.
  • He needs to be nowhere near any of them. If he persists then she needs a court order.
Lifeisabeach09 · 25/07/2018 19:49

I'd cut contact with Tom and his family fully.
She's definitely better off without him in their lives.

Parker231 · 25/07/2018 19:51

Why has she not pursued maintenance?

Ginger1982 · 25/07/2018 19:54

Deny contact. Let him raise court action if he's that fussed and pursue him for maintenance.

iamawoman · 25/07/2018 19:59

Soumds like hr has committed actual crimes against her - she doesnt owe him anything and she should report the nude photos being sent to friends. Any visitation to be done via a contact centre. However he sounds both immature and abusive so i would let him pursue his rights through legal channels rather than offer them up

OwlinaTree · 25/07/2018 19:59

If she lets him raise court action she could end up having to give more custody/access. Better to stick to the supervised access centre.

FrogFairy · 25/07/2018 20:27

Would it be worth her speaking to Women’s Aid? I know she has already left him but they may be able to offer advice on how to deal with reporting the crimes he has committed against her, or suggest another organisation who would help.

Weepingangels · 26/07/2018 08:44

Sinbu. She needs to report him to the police though. If he pushes for court she wants evidence behind her.

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