Heartbroken that I'm being forced to sell mum's house, she worked hard for it and paid her national insurance

[Jkoakham]

And now her savings are running out I will need to sell her house to carry on funding it.

It all seems to very unfair, her house was supposed to be passed to me but instead it's affectively passed to government and private companies.

I thought the dimentia tax had been can cancelled?

I'm not going to go there either, nor will many, many not millionaires with some money. All you'd do is subsidise greedy bastards who value their inheritance more than their parents' comfort. Surely you can see the flaw in your logic?

I do appreciate some of the points you make and it has made me re-assess my views on funding!

However, going into care is decided by rules & guidelines and that wont change, so we are nt going to get to the situation where 2 healthy 68 yo's are frog marched off to the local care home, whilst their kids divvy up the estate!!!
So taking on board your points, we could look at changes in IHT to recover some costs?perhaps ring fencing this tax too.

I just want better care for the elderly and just as we ve done with education and health, we need to fund social care for all, remove it from the private sector and invest in staff via training and wages.

Ring fenced tax increases through IHT would work for me. I really, really don't want young tax payers' income to be taxed for older people's care. I actually had more in mind that old people with very high care needs would be thrust into the most basic of free care so their children would pocket hundreds of thousands of ££. An increased rate of IHT would reduce that risk as they wouldn't get their hands on the money either way.

There are so many greedy cunts on here. My first thought reading this thread was that I hope this lady is getting good care and is happy in her care home. Her own daughter's primary thought is how much she's going to get when the lady dies

VladmirsPoutin - My grandmother is in a care home, and has f all. The council calculated that, seeing as she has f all, her pension goes straight to them, but that she is left with about £24 a month to play with - chiropodist, hairdresser, etc. The care home is not great, but it's clean and the staff are great. If she had her own property she would have had to sell it. She was wanting to go into a posh care home and couldn't really grasp the idea that, because she had f* all, that wasn't a possibility as no-one was able to pay for it, and certainly the tax payer shouldn't. It's a horrible situation - my grandmother, who, if I'm honest, has lived off the state for most of her life, gets a care home for free when others have to sell their homes. I'm booking my place at Dignitas for around 2048...

Ok so we can agree on IHT but what about funding for increased places, more staff, better paid? and a move to not for profit care?

That needs general taxation increases and then we hit the buffers of "why should the in-work pay for those?"

The lady who said she would commit suicide rather than lose inheritance for her children makes me sad. I would give such inheritance away if I received it. I couldn’t spend it and not feel utterly dreadful even if I needed it desperately.

I really like the idea of an additional iht charge to help fund care. But residential care is really expensive and I think those who could pay would still have to.

The trouble with the things you suggest, Jas, is that the standard of care would be appalling because price would be the deciding factor in every decision. Quality would go out of the window for those getting free care and you'd have to pay to get it. My heart is in total agreement with you, my head tells me it's impossible.

zsazsajuju,

I absolutely agree. The idea that I would have preferred money or property to a few more precious months of my elderly relatives' life is abhorrent to me. Yes, they may have been elderly, frail, blind, rather deaf, more than a little dotty in at least one case, but choosing NOT to have them for those extra months / years for monetary reasons - no. That would be wrong.

My issue with this is that we have already paid shedloads of tax (six figures annually and not with a 1 in front), we have not used state schools, we tend not to use the NHS.

If one of us developed cancer (a clinical disease) we wpuld receive thousands and thousands of ppunds worth of care, spend lengthy periods in hospital, possibly the last few months in a hospice all funded by the state and even in our 80s. If one or both of us develops alzheimers (a clinical disease) we receive nothing, nada, zilch and by the time diagnosis is received probably too late for a living will.

MIL and the late FIL have worked hard and lived prudently. Their savings would be stripped down to £23k. My mother has spent her inheritance on cars, cruises and high living. She wpuld reach £23k much faster and then the state would step in. Why should MIL have to pay more for having been prudent.

Just like cancer alzheimers can hit anyone. Alongside MH care generally society needs to stop disti guishing between physical and MH care and fund both equally and fairly. I agree taxes needs to rise to support a fair system but if so, so do standards of NHS care provision generally.

Alzheimer's is not just MH though, it's all the physical stuff that comes with it and it can be for several years. Most cancer patients, or a good proportion, recover, live, work. Some will sadly need hospice or home palliative care. I don't know if the costs are in any way similar or what the funding system should be. But I do know that I don't want to spend even more time at work so the OP can get "her" inheritance and have the holidays I can't.

I don’t get it either
Over 10 years in a care home, not lucid, still the family was utterly sad at the end
No one would have desired the opposite

Dementia is difficult - can last so long, cancer what are the timescales for treatment and remission or not as the case may sadly be

Is there anything around the word cure? Even with private healthcare this is a criteria (well my t&cs anyway)

@Bluelady
Surely though, that is down to regulation? we all see stories where elderly and disabled residents are abused right now inc those who ve paid for the privilege!
We ve universal health and educational system, standards though could be better, are not soooo bad.

Which is why i d have residential care put back under the NHS, somethings are just not meant to be run under private business ethos.

Its good to see that this thread has had so many contributors, its an important subject, we are all going to die! lets make our elderly care system one of the best!

Dementia is the mental health equivalent to arthritis - debilitating, degenerative, has no cure, can strike anyone and causes social not medical issues. There is no reason for it to be a health issue unless or until it causes issues that need medical intervention and mercifully many many sufferers pass before they get to that stage.

Jas, regulation doesn't work. Look at all the hospital scandals there are in our highly regulated NHS. My dad was treated so badly on a hospital ward we had to spring him because he wanted to die. Your idea is wonderful and I love your idealism but it wouldn't work in our brutal 21st century world.

@MeltingPregnantLady Firstly, I hope it’s cooled down where you surely. It’s been too hot. Secondly, you are so right but people just fail to see what is in front of them, even though it’s been explained many times in this thread. Perhaps some people have not read the whole thread though.

I understand why some people argue that social care should not be means tested. However, I belive that many people do not seem to understand there is a difference between needing medical care (catheters changes, pressure wounds dressed and PEG feeds administered) versus social care (bathing, dressing and meals).

Bluelady, the numbers of scandals are few and far between in comparison to the numbers going through the system, i'm sorry about your dad but my mum got decent treatment, it was very sad she got stuck in hospital but that was due to under funding of social and nursing residential care.

All you appear to be doing is putting up barriers to new thinking, if we carry on funding old age care as we are, then we ll keep getting the same results.

I'm genuinely not putting up barriers. But I AM a pragmatist and I was paid for many years to examine arguments and pinpoint any flaws. Elderly care funding has been a hotly debated issue for over a decade and better brains than either of ours have failed to find a solution. I am enjoying our discussion though and you've made me think too.

Dementia is very different from other diseases in that it is not in itself life limiting. If someone is warm and well fed they can go on for years. Fil, for example, wolfs down three large meals a day and apart from having no idea who he is, where he is or who his dcs are he is fine.

The trouble is that the next generation has cared for itself very well physically - good diet, exercise, not smoking... and so people may well be living to 120 with brains that conked out when they were 80.

Plus although decry it at times the NHS does a great job in so many ways - which means people are fixed and Iive longer

Although people...

Dementia is a terminal illness and if you live long enough with it then you will die from it.

Definitely health and social care need to merge.

and better brains than either of ours have failed to find a solution

Nah! put us both in a room & i think we d come out with some very good proposals.