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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Heartbroken that I'm being forced to sell mum's house, she worked hard for it and paid her national insurance

999 replies

Jkoakham · 25/07/2018 09:28

And now her savings are running out I will need to sell her house to carry on funding it.

It all seems to very unfair, her house was supposed to be passed to me but instead it's affectively passed to government and private companies.

I thought the dimentia tax had been can cancelled?

OP posts:
SciFiFan2015 · 25/07/2018 18:42

I don't know if it's been mentioned but there are legal and ethical ways to protect an inheritance. You'd still have to sell the house to release the capital.
You need to pay the bill. (If in Scotland there's a free personal care element I don't know where you are)
You can invest the capital and use the interest to pay the bill. It will probably need topped up.
Or you rent the house out and use the income from the rent to pay the care bills.
Think about it differently pay the bills is what is expected. Find a different solution.

I'll see if I can find a link

jasjas1973 · 25/07/2018 18:42

oh yes add in a space project and a new generation of UK fighter plane.... so plenty of cash in the system.

JustHereForThePooStories · 25/07/2018 18:44

OP, it could be a lot worse.

I live in a country where MIL doesn’t qualify for state-funded care because she owned a home. House sold for £200k, care is £1,600 a week and we’re currently heading towards our eighth year of funding her care.

SciFiFan2015 · 25/07/2018 18:49

I can't find the links but a financial advisor should be able to help. It might be called an immediate needs annuity? There are definitely packages that you can invest in. Make sure you are getting all the elements of care funding you are entitled too, top that up with income from the financial package or rent. This may cover it, it might not and if it doesn't maybe family members can help?

LeahJack · 25/07/2018 18:51

An increasing number of people rent because no matter what they sacrifice they will never be able to afford a property of any sort.

Well actually quite a few of them could if they received an inheritance which wasn’t swallowed up by care home fees.

In reality most of the old people requiring care now aren’t cash wealthy millionaires, they’re just very ordinary people who had the good fortune to buy a home when property was cheap and you could get a decent pension.

Many of them will have children or grandchildren who are similar to them. Not people with stellar careers, but people who work steadily with so-so incomes and have not been able to afford to buy, but haven’t had the sort of life crises that allow access to social housing either.

For those people a potential inheritance is often their only chance of being able to buy a home rather than spending the rest of their life handing out rent which funds their landlord’s pension rather than paying to create a nest egg of their own in the form of property.

I understand that nowadays most people who rent don’t have much choice (including me), but if you look at the generation who are needing care now it just wasn’t the case at all.

When I look back at school, there were always girls who had the latest designer clothes, went on fabulous holidays in exotic locations and had flash family cars.

My family on the other hand frequently said no to us, only holidayed every other year, drove a bit of a banger and kitted is out in C&A and Tammy Girl instead of Ralph Lauren and Bennetton.

Now years later my parents have built up quite a nest egg by being careful. And the girls whose parents spent, spent, spent didn’t.

It’s quite different to say that people in their 70s who chose to spend rather than invest or save are morally culpable for their situation far more than someone in their 30s or 40s is. There is a big difference between the older generation where there were easy and widely available opportunities people just chose not to take and the younger generations where those opportunities just weren’t available.

So I do think when looking at the older generations it’s very fair to question why people who didn’t take wise and prudent action when they had a wealth of opportunity but are now profiting from that because they get free care because they’ve spent all their money.

LeftRightCentre · 25/07/2018 18:53

It's in the best interest of a country to have a decent armed force, jajas.

noselimit · 25/07/2018 18:54

jasjas

Surely you can't be suggesting we drop our defences in order to subsidise the living costs of the elderly?

DroningOn · 25/07/2018 18:59

if you spend a lifetime saving, investing, being frugal etc and in your retirement have a nice well earned nest egg it all gets taken to fund your care. Your neighbours who were less conscious, lived life to the fullest and don't have two pennies to rub together get the same level of care for free........i know which financial model I prefer!

Ijumpedtheshark · 25/07/2018 19:12

The thing that many people don’t seem to understand is that the quality of purely state funded care is atrocious. I would spend every penny of my “inheritance” to ensure that my parents can live comfortably in the best care home possible.

CoolCarrie · 25/07/2018 19:13

jajas1973 is spot on. It’s the same with the convalescent homes being sold off which has caused “ bed blocking” a horrible saying, there isn’t anywhere left for people to regain their health.

TaggieOHara · 25/07/2018 19:14

I take the point that the economy is not structured to provide ‘free’ long term care, but I don’t suppose people would take such moral high ground about having the state pay for their e.g. schizophrenia treatment, when they could do so themselves from savings. The type of nursing care some of the PPs’ relatives are receiving is essentially medical /psychiatric treatment for dementia and it is hard to see the moral distinction when accepting state funded long term care.

OP and others - sorry you are having to make such awful choices. Flowers

user123xyz · 25/07/2018 19:17

Paid my mortgage off last year,i'm 65 and still working60+ hours a week. I intend doing 1 year past my pension date in September then doing equity release on my pile of rotten red bricks and manky timber,aka Victorian Terraced house. I look on my house as my savings, I intend spending it before I keel over. Old folks living frugally and fretting about somebodies legacy is not on.

LeahJack · 25/07/2018 19:38

user123xyz I entirely agree with that and it’s not an obligation. However, for a lot of people it’s a personal choice, and knowing family will be left in a good position able to avoid poverty and get some security behind them - that gives them more satisfaction than buying a new car or going on holiday.

But the person who buys the car, goes on holiday, gets a facelift etc gets that money twice. They get it once to spend then again in the form of free care. Whereas a person who saves will only get it once then have it taken away.

It’s a sad reflection of an economy built on debt and vastly over inflated house prices. Savers just aren’t valued anymore and often get the rough end of the deal these days.

Yellowcrocodile · 25/07/2018 19:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn.

hatgirl · 25/07/2018 19:41

Taggie the clue is in the word 'treatment'. Medical treatment is provided free at the point of access for everyone by the NHS

If someone with schizophrenia has social care needs and they haven't previously been detained under s.117 of the mental health act then they will be financially assessed for their ability to contribute towards their care costs.

Similarly anyone in a nursing home by definition must have nursing needs, be that dementia nursing or physical nursing. The NHS therefore pays a contribution of around £150 per week towards the nursing costs for the medical treatment of that person. Everything else is considered to be social care costs.

If a person's care needs are so medically great (in that they are so complex, unpredictable and intense) that they require nursing care over and above what that £150 per week funds and that medical need outstrips social care need then they will be considered for fully funded NHS care.

scaryteacher · 25/07/2018 19:48

pinksparkly
www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/07/24/taxpayers-could-asked-pay-lump-sum-retirement-levy-plans-considered/

Ministers are considering a so-called “retirement levy” which would see taxpayers pay a lump sum to the Government in order to meet the spiralling costs of residential and social care in old age.

The proposals would see retirees make a one-off payment into a ‘national care fund’ which would go towards meeting the costs of funding their stay in residential homes, it is understood.

Officials in the Treasury and the Department for Health are considering the scheme as an alternative to hiking taxes to pay for the country’s social care costs, which are expected to soar as the number of over 65s balloons by 75 percent in the next two decades.

A similar scheme was floated by Damian Green, Theresa May’s former deputy, at a talk earlier this year, where he proposed establishing an “insurance proposition” of £30,000 per person, most of which would be paid for through downsizing or equity release.

Sources close to Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, didn’t rule out the move, with one telling The Telegraph: “Nothing is off the table”.

Meanwhile, a senior Government source said that ministers were considering “various ideas” around funding social care, adding that they were determined “not to burden younger people” with ever higher taxation.

“What happened at the election last year showed that people don’t understand the current system, and the current system is not fair,” they added.

However, the proposals are likely to trouble Conservative backbenchers, who are still smarting from the disastrous “dementia tax” pledge put forward in the party’s manifesto during the 2017 election.

The proposal, which raised the ‘floor’ from which people pay for their care from £23,250 to £100,000 but crucially included people’s properties in calculating their assets, triggered a public backlash and was widely blamed for costing Theresa May her majority.

There are also suggestions that people unable to afford the lump-sum could defer payment until they die, a proposal which bears similarities with a 2010 Labour policy denounced as a “death tax”.

A Whitehall Source attempted to play down the proposals on Tuesday, telling this newspaper that the Treasury was engaged in “lots of conversations” and remains nervous about a scheme aimed at voters’ assets.

They added that ministers believed post-Brexit economic growth could generate the revenue necessary to meet additional social care spending, negating the need for a levy.

In a speech hosted by the Reform think tank in May, Mr Green proposed that people entered into a scheme similar to “compulsory car insurance”, which would ease pressure on ministers to increase taxes.

To do this, he suggested that most people liable for the payment downsized, citing figures showing that the average equity released from downsizing was approximately £60,000.

Alternatively, for those unwilling to move, an equity release product could provide an insurance premium which would pay into the fund.

If given a green light, the proposals could be put forward in a Government green paper on social care, due to be published in the coming months.

Lilimoon · 25/07/2018 19:56

For all those suggesting that the answer is to look after our own parents, come and look after my Mum for 24 hours and then have a rethink. She has dementia and has been in a home for 10 years. It would be impossible for her needs to be met by one person in a family home. She can only be cared for by a team of skilled professionals. To suggest anything else is fucking ignorant.
If you knew what she had been through and will still go through for god knows how long, you wouldn't make such idiotic suggestions.
I wouldn't wish dementia on my worst enemy.

user123xyz · 25/07/2018 20:00

It's my Christian name.

FaFoutis · 25/07/2018 20:05

That made me laugh.

Coroico97 · 25/07/2018 20:06

Lilimoon- I hear you and agree wholeheartedly. I totally understand and am in similar shoes to yours. It’s impossible. Sending strength to you. X

squirrelnut · 25/07/2018 20:09

I work in the care industry and have been in to lots of residential and nursing homes as part of my job.

What I can tell you from experience is that if you pay for your care what you’re paying for is CHOICE and the vast majority of the time “better care” as well.

Don’t get me wrong there are some “good” homes who will accept some LA funded residents but beds are in short supply.

If you have no assets or savings you are at the mercy of the local authority brokerage team who will put your relative out to tender and go with the lowest price home who can meet their needs. Of course they will try to take into account your preference but in reality there are so few beds in some areas they cannot offer you a choice that doesn’t exist.

I think lots of people are in for a shock in the next decade as some people I speak to genuinely have no idea social care isn’t free.

ivykaty44 · 25/07/2018 20:26

National insurance was introduced to pay for free schooling, pensions, this was around 1912 and after the 2nd world war NHS was also introduced

Nothing has been put away,, the government live literally hand to mouth making payments- this has gone on for years so no one party to blame

They’ve known for the last 70 years and never planned for the baby boomers to get old, it’s wasnt exactly a shock was it, but no government did any planning - it’s all short term

Unlike Norway

Op Your mother paid for my education and two babies, major surgery twice and I feel your pain. Rightly or wrongly some grow old sick and others drop dead and therein lies the difference to inheritance

lulu12345 · 25/07/2018 20:32

Thoroughly agree with the posters cautioning against the quality and variability of "free" care. This is the key point for me.. no way could I see either of my parents stuck with suboptimal care just so my inheritance could be protected.. what sort of son or daughter would be comfortable with that?? And for myself, I'm mid-30s and am putting every penny I can afford into pension and savings for the future. Once I've provided for my children's care and education then the next biggest priority for me is looking after my husband and me in our retirement. I want to have choice and comfort and don't expect to be leaving much at all for my children as I assume I'll be paying a lot for this.

I think we're in for a wake up call on this in the next 50 years as we need a significant change in how we do things to be able to afford our ageing population.

Yoksha · 25/07/2018 20:38

My dad said my generation would cause economic problems, and that was 50yrs ago. He bought a house, invested in a pension. Worked hard all his life. He planned to save so he and my mum could have a holiday when they retired. He dropped down dead at 45.