. . . to not pay the rest of this money?

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I'm asking for a friend as she's struggling with a moral dilemma at the moment, and I'm genuinely unsure too - one minute I think paying is the right thing to do, then I change my mind! Thought I'd get some MN opinions . . .

My friend booked to go on a trip away. The trip was suggested to her by a friend of hers, who works in partnership with the company (which is really two people, husband and wife) that arranged the trips. She paid £250 deposit and all plans were very informal and friendly over email with the friend. She assumed that the deposit would secure her place, and if she pulled out, she'd lose the deposit. She was never asked to sign anything or acknowledge terms and conditions.

A couple of weeks before the trip, my friend had to pull out as her work circumstances made it almost impossible to go - it would have permanently and seriously damaged her career to take the time off as planned. So, she cancelled the trip, thinking she'd lose her deposit but accepting that as a loss.

The company is now threatening her with legal action to pay the full amount of the trip (another £750 on top of the £250 deposit). The company initially said that if she paid the remaining £750 she could go on a trip later in the year. My friend asked if she could go early next year as no other dates suit, but they said no and are now saying she's in breach of contract and they will pursue her for the remaining £750.

My friend didn't sign anything and wasn't told that she'd have to pay the full balance if she pulled out. She has now looked at the company's website and sees that it does say this in their small print. But she was never directed to this or emailed anything to that effect.

Legally should she pay? Morally should she pay? Over to you!

Were the terms and conditions emailed to her at time of booking? Does she have travel insurance through bank etc that might cover her? If neither of these apply, she is nbu not to pay. Otherwise, irritatingly, she needs to pay up I think.

Legally if she wasn't on notice (actually or constructively ie they had been presented but she chose not to read them) than she is not bound by the terms.
Morally ... don't know. Are they out of pocket?

I wouldn’t pay a dime.

Legally and morally no don’t pay!
Morally and legally they should have made everything absolutely clear but they chose not to.
Your friend hasn’t signed anything so no contract was entered into, therefore no breach of contract.

I think they are just being CFs ! How many others are they doing this to?

Not only should you not pay but you should report them to trading standards .

This “friend “ doesn’t sound like much of a friend !

No, terms and conditions weren't emailed to her at time of booking, nor was she told to go and look at them on the website. It was all done very informally - her friend booked it with the company for her, since she works with them. I don't think anyone was out of pocket but I can't be certain; probably not, since initially they were happy for her to pay the remaining balance and take a date later in the year (but neither suit).

I didn't think about travel insurance but I don't think it would cover this situation - in theory she could still have gone, it wasn't due to illness or anything like that.

It sounds so sketchy in terms of how it was set up that I don't think they'd have a leg to stand on legally (but not an expert at all)

Morally, she should lose the deposit and pay nothing else.

Hmm pulling out two weeks before the trip is bad form. When was the balance due? Will the company have to pay the balance?

If terms and conditions weren’t mailed to her or made clear to her over the phone/on email she has no legal obligation to pay and certainly no moral one. I’d tell them to do one

Does she have legal insurance with her home insurance/union membership/bank account/etc?

Might be worth talking to them - much cheaper than going to see a solicitor; and it’s a service she’s already paying for!

Not being funny but most holiday companies will keep most 75% to 100% of monies (if paid )if holiday is cancelled between 30 and 10 days before departure, I’m not sure where she will stand legally, I’m suprised it wasn’t all paid by then

Oh I'll get her to look into the legal insurance thing - good idea!

I'm thinking that this situation would be very different if my friend was ever told she'd be liable for the full amount even if she cancelled - she wouldn't be shocked and upset the way she is now, she'd have accepted that she agreed to this and stump up the cash.

I think their aggressive pursuit of the money is upsetting her a lot and she's very close to caving and paying

But if the friend booked it, your friend wouldn't have been mailed anything. The friend (of your friend) is liable for the extra money.

Surely if you book something and pay a deposit, you find out about about terms and conditions/cancellation policy at the time of booking?

As it was her friend who made the booking, presumably she's the one who actually formally agreed to the ts & cs and will have to pay if op's friend doesn't.

How did she pay the £250 deposit? If her friend booked it for her, and she has not signed anything, and she gave cash to her friend, then there is no legal evidence of a booking at all. I'd like to see them try and take legal action against her.

I'd like to see them try and take legal action against her.

They'll probably take it against her friend.

No idea where she stands legally, I'm afraid, but morally, I don't think she should have to pay.

I understand that giving only two weeks' notice leaves very little time for the company to find a replacement customer to take the space or to mitigate their losses (as they may already have paid or committed to pay upfront costs for her - food, trips etc).

However, surely the whole idea of paying a deposit is: 1. From the company's point of view, you're demonstrating your commitment to going ahead, knowing that you will lose it if you do cancel (thus being much less likely to cancel and, if you do, only for a very good reason); and 2. From the customer's point of view, you know that your space is reserved and won't be sold to anybody else.

Therefore, I would say that, morally, if you cancel in the space between paying the deposit and when the balance becomes due, you should lose what you've already paid but then not have to pay any more. If the company is severely disadvantaged with such short cancellations, they need to amend their policies and demand the balance be paid, say, six weeks before the start date - and then, if you cancel, having paid the full price, you accept that you lose the lot.

I would add that, if the friend hadn't had any association with the company and was purely paying upfront and signing a contract with an unknown third-party on behalf of a friend, in good faith, then it would be very morally dubious to pull out and leave her in it. But as she's connected with the company herself, I'd say that that caveat doesn't apply. Whether the friendship survives is a different matter....

When was the balance due?

She didn't book the holiday, her friend did. I would have thought the person booking the holiday was liable.

Update - the guy from the company is saying he's a practising solicitor and will be pursuing my friend for the debt . . . !

Even though at no point have they referred my friend to the Ts and Cs or told her the full amount would be due if she cancelled.

Makes me think he's not a very good solicitor . . .

So the terms and conditions are on the website now. Were they on there when she booked or have they only appeared recently?

I would assume, when booking a holiday, you post a deposit (that you lose if you cancel), then pay the rest, somewhere between 6-10 weeks before and you'd need to check the T&C to see how much of that you would lose if you cancelled.

There's not a company around that would let you leave paying the full amount until the last minute and expect you to pay more once you've cancelled! No one would pay it, it's their issue if they don't ask for full payment a month or two beforehand!

I think I know the husband from your OP (might not be them but would be a strange coincidence)

It sounds a bit fishy to me, he organises holidays and is a solicitor? I worked in travel agencies and we asked for full balance six weeks before departure. Then there was a sliding scale of how much money was forfeit the nearer you cancelled to the departure date. In your case you only paid the deposit before cancelling. Seems a funny way of doing business to expect money after cancelling.

@cloudtree, what do you think the OP's friend should do?

I would say, OP, that with no contract and no direction to check the T&Cs on the website, she is able to just cancel now. Surely if they'd incurred expenses (eg a hotel room which couldn't be cancelled) they would have asked her for the money in advance?