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AIBU?

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Original poster

. . . to not pay the rest of this money?

68 replies

RedPandaFluff · 24/07/2018 22:44

I'm asking for a friend as she's struggling with a moral dilemma at the moment, and I'm genuinely unsure too - one minute I think paying is the right thing to do, then I change my mind! Thought I'd get some MN opinions . . .

My friend booked to go on a trip away. The trip was suggested to her by a friend of hers, who works in partnership with the company (which is really two people, husband and wife) that arranged the trips. She paid £250 deposit and all plans were very informal and friendly over email with the friend. She assumed that the deposit would secure her place, and if she pulled out, she'd lose the deposit. She was never asked to sign anything or acknowledge terms and conditions.

A couple of weeks before the trip, my friend had to pull out as her work circumstances made it almost impossible to go - it would have permanently and seriously damaged her career to take the time off as planned. So, she cancelled the trip, thinking she'd lose her deposit but accepting that as a loss.

The company is now threatening her with legal action to pay the full amount of the trip (another £750 on top of the £250 deposit). The company initially said that if she paid the remaining £750 she could go on a trip later in the year. My friend asked if she could go early next year as no other dates suit, but they said no and are now saying she's in breach of contract and they will pursue her for the remaining £750.

My friend didn't sign anything and wasn't told that she'd have to pay the full balance if she pulled out. She has now looked at the company's website and sees that it does say this in their small print. But she was never directed to this or emailed anything to that effect.

Legally should she pay? Morally should she pay? Over to you! Grin

OP posts:
Girlfrommars77 · 25/07/2018 21:50

It all sounds odd and confusing tbh. As op said it’s v short notice, so did the informal arrangement mean her friend booked and accepted t&cs assuming your friend would give her due notice or not pull out? If so I think morally dubious to not pay up or come to some compromise. But why have such an informal rrangement over £1k.

When did she plan to pay the balance?? On arrival?

DickensianHysteric · 25/07/2018 21:50

No way would I pay another penny in these circumstances. It doesn't sound like a very professional company.

eggncress · 25/07/2018 21:51

Says he’s a practising solicitor? Still doesn’t mean he can make up his own laws !
Think they’re trying to intimidate you too now.
Go see a layer yourself ... one of many that offer free first consultations .
I think they’re at it !!

eggncress · 25/07/2018 21:52

Lawyer ( layer Grin)

ItsNachoCheese · 25/07/2018 21:53

No way should she pay! If anyone should its the person that booked that should

butlerswharf · 25/07/2018 21:54

There's zero basis for a claim here! All they could do is take her to the small claims court and it wouldn't get given the time of day as there's no agreed or implicit contract.

butlerswharf · 25/07/2018 21:54

*implied

kaytee87 · 25/07/2018 21:55

Were the ts&cs made clear to the friend that booked? If so, then as it was the friend that entered into the agreement, she would be liable for the cost.
Your friend has no contract with these people at all if she didn't make the booking herself.

cloudtree · 25/07/2018 21:55

Egg not many of us actually offer free first consultations.

I do know a senior solicitor who has wound down his practice and now runs a travel company. It could well be him so I won't give my view other than to say that surely your friend realised that so late in the day she might lose more than her initial deposit.

eggncress · 25/07/2018 22:10

@cloud ... I know many don’t offer free initial app. Maybe depends where in the country you live?
I had 3 separate free appointments this year for different matter ( from separate firms ) before going ahead with one of them.
Or OP can contact her home ins as they may offer same.

imamum21 · 25/07/2018 22:16

i would get her to email and ask them to provide a copy of the contract which she signed within 30 days (its a reasonable amount of time) , if they fail to provide it she will take them to court over harassment and being mis-sold it as she was never advised of any terms and conditions.

failing that go to CAB

MissLingoss · 25/07/2018 22:23

Were the ts&cs made clear to the friend that booked? If so, then as it was the friend that entered into the agreement, she would be liable for the cost.
Your friend has no contract with these people at all if she didn't make the booking herself.

She has an obligation to her friend, though. Or should she just let the friend who booked take the financial hit for her late cancellation?

oldsockeater · 25/07/2018 22:34

Regardless of the financial implications it seems mean to let a friend down at 2 weeks notice. What kind of career would be ruined by taking pre agreed time off?

I'd feel obliged to refund the friend's holiday as well as my own if they were left to go by themselves otherwise

LuluJakey1 · 25/07/2018 22:36

It is very naive of her to think that at this late stage she would only lose her deposit. That fact that she has paid a deposit would suggest a contract if some sort - not sure of the absolute legalities of it.
They could be made to sound reasonable in that they have offered her an opportunity to change and re-book a trip of her choice in the next 5 1/2 months.
However, if she has no paperwork or emails from them, I think they are on weak ground.
But your friend has a responsibility as an adult to take reasonable measure to protect herself when she agrees to something like bookng a holiday and it sounds like she was lazy about it or casual.

Burrumpeel · 25/07/2018 22:41

If he's a practising solicitor why is he trading as some sort of travel agent? Does the Law Society know about this?
I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think you are liable for the full amount legally speaking - they wouldn't be faffing about like headless chickens if you were. Morally, I'd say you were liable for the deposit.

NT53NJT · 25/07/2018 22:44

Isn't the point of a deposit is so if you can't go then the company get some form of compensation and they can then sell the place to someone else?

Singlenotsingle · 25/07/2018 22:45

They are obliged to make all reasonable attempts to mitigate their losses. That means advertise and see if they can get someone to take the place that the friend can't now use. If they can, there will be no loss and the friend not liable to pay.

cloudtree · 25/07/2018 22:47

If he's a practising solicitor why is he trading as some sort of travel agent? Does the Law Society know about this?

lots of lawyers hate their jobs and would rather run a travel company/some other business

kaytee87 · 25/07/2018 22:50

She has an obligation to her friend, though. Or should she just let the friend who booked take the financial hit for her late cancellation?

Of course she has a moral obligation to her friend. I was talking about her obligation to the company.

ThunderInMyHeart · 25/07/2018 22:54

Google ‘Find a Solicitor’ and then click ‘Find a professional’/‘professional search’ and enter his name. This checks the roll of all admitted solicitors in England and Wales.

ThunderInMyHeart · 25/07/2018 22:58

Your friend could play hardball and cite Lord Justice Denning’s famous quotation about unfair contract terms needing to be highlighted with a big red hand pointing to them in order to be upheld (the case is Spurling v Bradshaw). So even if the T&Cs were up on the site/emailed, something so onerous as what’s being demanded now should have been explicitly brought to her attention.

That case is law school 101.

Also, it’s a breach of the SRA Code of Conduct for a solicitor to use his position to intimidate...which he is now doing. I’d hit the fucker with that.

MissLingoss · 25/07/2018 22:59

Of course she has a moral obligation to her friend. I was talking about her obligation to the company.

Either way, though, she needs to pay the money.

GnotherGnu · 25/07/2018 23:14

Has she checked whether the company owner really is a practising solicitor? She can do so here

GnotherGnu · 25/07/2018 23:16

lots of lawyers hate their jobs and would rather run a travel company/some other business

But it would be a bit unusual for a practising solicitor to do this. Apart from anything else, to be a practising solicitor you have to pay for a Practising Certificate and have professional indemnity insurance in place. Why do that if you're not actually in practice?

eggncress · 25/07/2018 23:20

To say you should pay in full just because you paid a deposit ( and supposedly thereby “ entering into a contract”) would be the same as expecting you to pay for a car( or any other goods) in full even if you change your mind...just because you paid a deposit for it.
A deposit is just that and OP wasn’t informed of any t&c , nor has anything been signed. Also was told she can rebook for a later date. Sounds like she was misled

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