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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think school heads should be contactable in school holidays

752 replies

EloiseMinch · 23/07/2018 16:28

A secondary head is likely to be on 70k+ and a primary head of 50k+. Those are high salaries for positions of senior management responsibility. AIBU to think they shouldn't just cut off completely in the school holidays?

Maybe some heads really are working in the holidays but I know the head at DC's school definitely doesn't. She is, for example, completely uncontactable from the end of one term to the start of the next.

OP posts:
FannyFaceAche · 26/07/2018 22:10

Get a life OP. Head teachers lose about half that time to a bloody mountain of admin that keeps the school running for your DC. Which brings them down to about average annual leave. And no, 50k+ a year is not a lot for the budget, staff numbers and pressure of the job.

Shewhomustbeobeyed1 · 26/07/2018 22:10

*High

yorkrose · 26/07/2018 22:14

Our head is on a salary just short of 90k. Doesn't respond to emails during school terms and have never met the head! Perhaps the head is too busy running the school. Wouldn't expect contact during holidays though.

Beebs11 · 26/07/2018 22:21

Wow can you even hear yourself? Why would you want to contact her anyway?

For the record my dad is a primary head teacher and they do not get 13 weeks as a holiday. The amount of hours he works after school such as governers meetings, parents evening, schools sports event etc and also the hours he puts in his so called ‘holiday’. He doesn’t get paid enough for the hours he puts in and the responsibility he has!

Look at it another way. In my industry (investment banking) i am bottom of the pile however, there are people in this industry who take home in a year more than my dad will take home in his whole career. But then again... they don’t get 13 weeks holiday a year 😂

WillowRose79 · 26/07/2018 22:28

Are you being serious? How self entitled are you! You want 24/7 responses- even private schools don’t do this! Absolutely unbelievable

cheval · 26/07/2018 22:37

Head of sixth form and other teachers all working and emailing when results came out a few years ago for youngest, so they’re not on holibobs.

Clavinova · 26/07/2018 22:40

For the umpteenth time... we do not get 13-weeks holiday... we get 4-weeks like everyone else... the 9-other weeks are subject to pro-Rata salary calculations and mean a £3/4000 drop compared to a full time wage

This statement is utter tosh!
Several posters claiming to be head teachers should know this.

It's at least 10 years out of date with regard to statutory annual leave entitlement for a start...

People say that to make it clear that we are on term time contracts

No!
Staff on term-time (only) contracts are on term-time (only) contracts - usually support staff such as TAs. Permanent teachers are on permanent contracts - running throughout the school year. The summer term in England runs from the 1st May to the 31st August, with salary accruing at a daily rate for permanent teachers.

Clavinova · 26/07/2018 22:43

I do agree though, that head teachers are under no obligation to make contact with parents during school closure periods.

Mummyof0ne · 26/07/2018 23:12

Would you like to be contacted on holiday?

simiisme · 26/07/2018 23:12

No. YABVU. 12-13 hour days mean that their holidays are just time off in lieu of unpaid overtime. Plus they do a lot of work in the holidays.
Yes, I am a teacher.
No, I wouldn't want to be a Head teacher at twice their average salary.

MaisyPops · 26/07/2018 23:21

Popping back in just to say clavi is doing what they love best (as someone who isn't a teacher and has never been a teacher) which is turning up on teacher threads banging on endlessly about their superior knowledge of everyone's contracts.

No discussion you have will be enough and eventually they start saying everyone is stupud and they couldn't teach because it's like talking to idiots etc.

For someone with no personal connection to education they have an almost tragic obsession and bizarre overinvestment in the pay and conditions of teachers. Confused

EllenMP · 26/07/2018 23:24

YANBU. Someone in authority should be at least checking email every day. The head and deputy head should divvy up the responsibility for this so they each get three weeks' break. There won't be a lot of emails, but you never know when something important might come up.

Clavinova · 26/07/2018 23:55

MaisyPops

For someone with no personal connection to education
I have already stated on the other thread that I have close family relations who are teachers - I am very fond of them by the way - and they agree with me!

almost tragic obsession and bizarre overinvestment in the pay and conditions of teachers

I wouldn't call 2 or 3 threads an obsession and you'll notice that I left the other thread to die away - but it's resurfaced again. I haven't posted again - yet. I don't post in the Staffroom.
Perhaps I was a lawyer in a past life and contracts still interest me Wink

You could always apply for a job in an independent school -
www.atl.org.uk/advice-and-resources/rights-and-conditions/teachers-employment-rights-summary-independent-sector

The ATL quite clearly state that teachers working in independent schools are entitled to take all school holidays as paid annual leave

^Holiday
It is standard practice for teachers to be entitled to take all school holidays as paid annual leave, although your employer may reserve the right to require you to attend for one or two days in the holiday. The entitlement should be the same if you are a part-time teacher, although your pay will be no more than your weekly pay during term time^

Ojiverde74 · 27/07/2018 00:17

Headteachers well deserve their salary. The headteacher in my sons school start to work at least an hour before everyone else and many days doesn’t leave before 7 pm and some days even later. I don’t know how they do it, it’s not just a managerial job but the challenges of having to cope with unruly kids, ungrateful parents, the school expectations, being judged in every single aspect etc. In my opinion teaching is one of the most stressful jobs.

TheWanderlust · 27/07/2018 00:52

OP get a grip.
Many teachers, heads and admin staff all work at least 2 weeks of the summer holiday. They just have absolutely no reason to inform parents of when this will be - enabling them to get lesson planning/ other admin done without continuous interruption from parents that have something they "forgot" to complain about before the end of term.

Real life experience in my world. Mother was a teacher for 35 years. 11 of those as a deputy head. Spent many days during school holidays helping organise her classroom for the next term.

liverbird10 · 27/07/2018 01:05

YABU and you know it.

strawberrisc · 27/07/2018 06:07

I’m hoping OP is trolling, otherwise they are that special breed of moron who is driving teaching professionals into other careers.

CarolineCJ · 27/07/2018 07:28

Wow seriously just wow I work in a school you think once the children leave that’s it? No your much mistaken we still have lesson plans to produced, classrooms to decorate and dress up, activities to plan, there’s many a night after work I am exhausted on my feet and you think someone on a high salary shouldn’t get as you put 13 weeks off! Just wow

angelfacecuti75 · 27/07/2018 07:37

50k will be pro tattered so they won't actually be being paid 4 holidays probably . Don't think u need to

AlmostPerfect1955 · 27/07/2018 07:52

A full time teacher’s salary is not pro rata’d.
They are paid all year.

Rebooting · 27/07/2018 08:09

Almost

Teachers most certainly are paid pro rata. But the payment is divided into 12 payments, so we get a monthly amount.

nicebitofquiche · 27/07/2018 09:22

So is an advertised HT or teachers salary already pro ratad?

Tomorrowillbeachicken · 27/07/2018 09:25

We haven’t even met our new head yet and they start in September

psicat · 27/07/2018 09:29

I admit I haven't read the whole thread, I got several pages in but it just seemed to be repeating. I was just querying the salaries quoted, it was estimated at the beginning that the HT salary was £70k with it rising to £90 in "real" money.
I know it does depend on the location and I imagine size of school running but round our way the average primary HT wage is under £40k. That's a fuck of a lot of work for that amount of wage.
I'm in a low paid public sector job, sometimes I think about chucking it in and getting something that paid better for much less stress but I genuinely love it and would miss it terribly. I often will say to colleagues they can contact me while on holiday as we're all there to support it each other - but I wouldn't take a call from a member of public. That's my paid leave.
Admittedly I'm on a lot less than £37-40k but I know the hours and level of work HT have to do as well as the levels of responsibility, I wouldn't want it for twice the salary.
How much do you pay for childcare, for the responsibility of your one child. HT have ultimate responsibility for all the children at their school - as well as the teachers, TAs and all other staff (admin etc). They are also responsible for the building, for ensuring they meet the ever changing curriculum, deal with concerns of the parents, deal with police, social services, antisocial behaviour officers, deal with the governers.
Im trying to say as has been said over and again - this is a demanding role with skillsets required that most of us don't have to think of. A good teacher can be everything to a school and yes, a bad one can drag it down (I'm very disappointed with our primary tbh, general consensus is that it was the old HT that ran it into the ground, we're waiting to see if it improves).
What is your school generally like? What's its ofsted rating?

I appreciate how upsetting it would be to deal with bullying type behaviour. We all want the best for our kids - but by posting such an inflammatory statement you've not really helped your case.

What do you think the HT can do in the holidays? The alleged offenders won't be there, they're not going to pull parents in in the holidays.
HT have to deal with cases of severe neglect, kids who have been physically /sexually assaulted, kids who parents are the victims of domestic violence, kids carrying weapons, potential abductions (usually by family members), bloody FGM.
I think they absolutely deserve a break. They will be contactable by proper authorities, just not parents (who if it is serious can contact through proper authorities).

Source - HT and teachers in family as well as friends in profession.

AspireAchieve · 27/07/2018 09:34

Primary head here. Responsibilities are huge. No £50,000+ salary either. £42399 just less than £3,000 more than my most experienced teacher.

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