To think school heads should be contactable in school holidays

[EloiseMinch]

A secondary head is likely to be on 70k+ and a primary head of 50k+. Those are high salaries for positions of senior management responsibility. AIBU to think they shouldn't just cut off completely in the school holidays?

Maybe some heads really are working in the holidays but I know the head at DC's school definitely doesn't. She is, for example, completely uncontactable from the end of one term to the start of the next.

I've just had to email the school during summer holidays (emailed the Secretary, but the head answered). I wouldn't unless it was necessary, and wasn't expecting it to be read and replied to until the inset days at the start of September, nevertheless she replied within an hour I feel bad that she's stuck in the school still working.

As to the OP, I do think YABU. I can maybe see your reasoning - senior management in many other industries would expect to deal with some calls/emails/WhatsApp messages, but I don't think this is actually a good thing.

50k+ as a primary head 🤣

This old chestnut again! (For the record I'm not a teacher but I work in a school) the teachers are there from 8am until 6pm most days, they usually have to come in during the holidays to prepare classrooms etc. This is on top of any lesson planning or extra training they need to do for new curriculums etc. They also spend a lot of time in the evenings marking etc. Our reception teacher would regularly be updating online learning journals at 10pm. So if you think the job is so cushy, might I suggest you head back to uni for a minimum of 3 years to qualify then spend the rest of your working life reading crap like this?

and our head teacher teaches her year 2 class still aswell. she is acting head at the moment but i deffinatly want her to fill the head teacher role. she has been my daughters teacher before we didnt see eye to eye and then she was my sons teacher awkward.... but she is a fab head. i went in one morning asked for a meeting was seen right away even tho she teaches her year 2 class on top of head teacher duties. the meeting was short as the issue was serious gang of boys beat up my daughter. she arranged to see me after school and had plenty to tell me about how she had handled it all. i was satisfied with the way she dealt with it. i think she fully deserves her holidays. as do all head teachers. i have now read some of the thread and you seem stuck on her salary and holidays. you dont have a problem with teachers salary or holidays.... i dont get it... head teachers have a LOT more responsibility. head teachers probably are working all through the holidays but not contactable to parents just the staff and ss and people like that. you dont have the god given right to contact the head out of term time. you shouldnt have waited so long to report concerns

Home school, then. Show us all how it’s done.

And that’s for all the whinging and complaining parents on MN - do it your bloody selves and leave me and my colleagues in peace.

I am a secondary head and I get emails constantly in the holidays. I will always reply if it is important and 9/10 it isn’t! (But I still reply and help if I can because actually, to those parents it IS important!) I make it clear to parents that staff are not obligated to reply during weekends or holidays but most teachers will. We are so dedicated to our children that’s it’s hard not to reply in the holidays but maybe parents should be more respectful of the well deserved time off teachers need!

Hi OP, I agree that personal insults are not on at all. I saw someone say something about slapping you in the face and I think that this is really horrible.

As for your original post I do think your being unrealistic and complaining about the wrong things, yes I understand you are upset that your child has been bullied and if you feel it is not being dealt with then put in an official complaint.
If you weren't aware that you can complain in schools then what makes you think you are qualified to deal with all the complications of regulating the HT?
If only a PTA could pay for new TAs!
And lastly, although you say you are not happy with your child being bullied he will not be in serious danger, as staff have a 'duty of care' to all the children. If you are really unhappy with the procedures, take your child out of the school.
I hope it works out for you. X

OP what seems apparent is that you don't have a very good understanding of a Headteacher's job. Which is fine, most people don't, except that you are trying to suggest they aren't doing their job properly. Putting aside the issue of how the bullying allegations have/have not been dealt with since November (as none of us know the full picture), I can say that your apparent belief that Heads should be contactable to you during non-school time is odd.

I deliberately call it non-school time because this applies to any time children aren't in school (i.e. evenings, weekends, outside term time). There are many, many important things that Heads are doing at those times and which they can't do while pupils are in school, as that time is largely taken up with dealing with day-to-day concerns. Much of this other stuff is strategic, some is crisis-management. The vast majority of parents would not be aware of what the Head is doing at any time of year, so your assumption that she isn't working because she isn't talking to you about a discipline issue may be completely erroneous.

To cite one example of a primary Head in England's first few days of 'summer holiday': Sunday afternoon in school to welcome back pupils and staff who'd been on a residential (ended up staying over 3 hours because the bus was delayed and then one parent didn't arrive for ages and the Head stayed with the pupil while other staff went home); Monday unplanned meeting in school with a member of staff and chair of governors after teacher received inappropriate gift at end of term and it needed to be followed up; 2 days this week had scheduled site meetings over new build; plans made to meet with chair of gov & deputy at some point in next fortnight over an unexpected staffing issue which cropped up this week. This is only what I know the Head to have been doing because my OH is the chair of governors and therefore has also been involved in these specific events. There will be many other things she's also been busy doing about which I know nothing. Admittedly, this Head may well be a better Head than the one you're describing, but who knows? The school isn't rated outstanding and I'm sure it has its issues in terms of bullying, some parents feeling response times are too long etc (i.e. external indicators might suggest to some parents that the Head could be better), but I suspect the reason I think this Head is good is because I have a glimpse into just what she deals with and how much time and commitment it takes to do her job - including getting done all those things which the majority of people will never notice.

I really, really dislike the assumption (increasingly common in education and perhaps other sectors too), that if you don't know what a person is doing for all of their working hours then they must be sitting on their arses. Why is the default belief that a person is being lazy/incompetent, rather than that they are dealing with other things which have been prioritised?

Do people start these threads as a wind up? I just don't understand them. Of course you shouldn't be able to contact a Head or a teacher during the summer break. Why on earth would you?

Also, £70k sounds like a lovely salary to me, but I've met people on higher salaries who do jobs that (IMO) are way easier than being a head teacher! I'm the £70k is well earned.

So you think teachers are on holiday when the kids are???? That they don't work in the school holidays?
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

HT here. I check my emails over the summer, will pop in and out of school, and will get some essential prep done for the start of the academic year. I would not expect to be contacted by parents or colleagues unless it was a dire emergency - and those concerned have my mobile phone number. It doesn’t sound like OP would constitute a dire emergency...
My holidays are part and parcel of a very demanding job (which many are reluctant to do). One of my key goals for the summer break is to relax and forget can mpletely about work. If I didn’t I would be of no use to anyone come September. I am completely I embarrassed about making my well-being a priority over the summer break, and I expect my staff team to do similarly!

Fat fingers! Forget completely and un-embarrassed

I haven’t read the whole thread but it seems obvious to me there comes a time when the best option is to move Dc to a different school if all else has failed.

Dickhead 😂😂

Yes. You are being unreasonable.

Just because you can't contact them does not mean they are not working, that is just a small part of their job. The Senior Leadership Team will all be in contact and available to staff, and a lot of work will be going on in the background. They will have planned their actually holidays around one another so that there is cover at all times.

And I don’t much like or respect most headteachers...

Apologies as I haven't read the whole thread but does the OP think that heads sit around drinking tea all day? Our head is non stop from 7am till 6pm. Heads deserve a break from constant contact.

Eloise Minge
People like you are exactly why the teacher is not contactable. Along with the ridiculous paperwork and unruly disrespectful behaviour, parents like you (link to unruly disrespectful behaviour) is why there’s a teacher shortage.
I bet you are one of those parents that thinks your kid is always right and the teacher wrong and get on the attack at any opportunity you can bite. You bitch and complain about the teachers to your kids and we wonder why there are classes where kids are saying ‘you can’t tell me what to do’ (wonder who get that from) and the class is out of control. I also bet you are one of those parents that rocks up late to pick up their kid everyday either because you are arrogant/ignorant/rude or trying to make a point. The system is all wrong but what is also a major problem in education is some poor parenting. If you don’t show respect to the teachers neither will your kids...and guess what,that leads to poor behaviour and therefore affects the teaching. So congrats that your attitude is ensuring that your child gets a worse education. I also bet you were one of those parents that sent your kid to school in shoes with laces even though you hadn’t taught them to tie them and expected the teachers to teach them that too.

Just to clarify I meant that the OP seems to have an issue with the specific school and HT,so rethinking where DC goes seems logical. I absolutely agree all teachers and school staff deserve a well earned break over the hols.

DH is a head of a large primary school. He is non contact with parents (apart from extenuating circs) for the whole summer but he works at least 2 weeks of it in school and will work when we're away. It's not a job - it's a way of life for him so any break he does have is sacred. We guard this time Fiercely because he put his own children and their needs second place to his school
Children. I accept that's how it is - it's kept our family fed and secure but nonetheless, his children at school and his staff have come 1st in day to day living.

If you still begrudge them this time and still feel
That they should be contactable at all times, then I'll ask you to walk in my shoes first. My DC miss their Dad and sometimes, they just want him and only him. They have to share him enough.

This is one of the most bizarre threads I’ve ever read in MN. Still staggered at OP’s suggestion that the PTA ‘just’ stump up a few quid for a few TAs that would magically be there for September....

Several posters have said that teachers are only paid for 195 days a year. This is not true. Teachers are paid for the full year but this full year is defined as 1265 hours of ‘directed time’ spread over 195 days. Directed time usually refers to time spent teaching and supervising children and such duties as attending parents’ evenings. That works out at just under 6.5 hours per school day. However their contracts also require that a teacher works, “such reasonable additional hours as may be necessary to enable the effective discharge of the teacher’s professional duties.” This includes, in particular, planning and preparing courses and lessons and assessing, monitoring, recording and reporting on the progress of assigned pupils. Headteachers’ directed time need not be spent teaching.
A teacher, like any other professional, is required to put in the hours necessary to do a good job. Most do, but this does not include being available to stakeholders (parents) at all times.
No, I’m not a teacher but was a school business manager for many years and to be fair the admin staff do get a little exercised that they have to be in school all during the holidays - or be paid part time.

almost People say that to make it clear that we are on term time contracts so our yearly pay reflects the fact that we work 195 days a year. The pay comes with the whole package (term time, 1265 hours directed time, reasonable addition hours to do the job properly).
If term time increased then our pay would have to.

I'm still wondering how a school near me has an hour longer on each teaching day and fits everything into directed time. I'm guessing as they aren't LA they've opted to use their freedoms (whereas all other trusts and academies near me are holding to burgandy books).

£50-70k for running a business? Not a Hugh salary at all.