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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to ask wtaf is going on with the Met Police?

124 replies

whatyadoing · 22/07/2018 23:00

I was a victim of crime last night (serious crime and was in ongoing danger). I reported the crime at approx. 1.20am (999), they eventually made their way to my HOME address at 6am at which point I was home (no fucking thanks to them!).

I rang 101 this evening to discuss said crime and was on hold for 23 minutes at which point I gave up holding.
Wtf?
Is there something I should know about? What has Theresa May done now or am I just living in a particulary cunt of a bastarding place in London?

OP posts:
VelvetSpoon · 23/07/2018 15:08

Here's an example. Someone I know was arrested by the police for a relatively minor crime that didn't involve violence or threat. Person is fairly tall and very broadly built. When told they were being arrested, they offered to walk to the vehicle rather than being led out of their house in cuffs. The 6 police officers who attended their home (why on earth it needed 6 was anyones guess) said no, due to their size they had to be cuffed. They were later re arrested (8 officers this time as clearly 6 wasn't enough) for an even more minor offence. Again the cuffs even though there was nothing to suggest they posed a threat.

2 arrests, an average of 7 officers each time. For a minor offence the tariff for which is a non custodial sentence. Is that really an appropriate use of the limited police resource?!

Finfintytint · 23/07/2018 15:20

Velvet, the person getting arrested doesn’t get to dictate how that arrest takes place. I expect handcuffs were used as the officer may have “lost” a prisoner in similar circumstances. The numbers mean nothing necessarily - maybe the group of officers have been tasked for the day with numerous arrests (or maybe your friend has warning markers?). Most arrests take place by invitation to the police station to be arrested so maybe your friend didn’t comply?

Train101 · 23/07/2018 15:22

Well they committed a crime so they needed arresting...

The police do a great job, they've to apply the law no matter how minor or stupid you think it's.

bluemoonchances · 23/07/2018 15:26

The issue being velvet spoon That until officers get to an address and inside they don't know what they're going to face, so actually 6 officers isn't disproportionate. Most of the time if a person is being arrested at home, there will be cause to also search the address, so 2 officers to escort the suspect, 4 to deal with whoever else is in the house and search it. And yes the person said they were happy to walk to the car, but very often people lie. Either try and run for it or become violent in the vehicle, so yes when with someone who could easily overpower an officer, precautions will be taken.

VelvetSpoon · 23/07/2018 15:57

What's a warning marker? Being taller or broader than the average?! At the time of arrest a person has not been charged. They may not be guilty. If someone is compliant and polite and being arrested for a low level offence which even if convicted will not result in a custodial sentence, why is there a need to subject them to the indignity and discomfort of handcuffs? Other than for the officers to enjoy a power trip and assertion of superiority that is.

You do understand Train I hope that not everyone arrested is prosecuted or convicted?!

I still fail to see how it's proportionate for 6-8 officers to attend for a minor offence (no more serious offence was suspected) especially given how precious police time is. This could have been dealt with by a request to attend the station; the disproportionate nature of the police response was commented upon at court. If resources are short, surely they should be used in a better way?

bluemoonchances · 23/07/2018 16:05

Most things now days are dealt with by an invite to the station, if the person can be contacted. I assume you only know what your friend has told you, which with respect may not be the whole story.
A warning market is a note on a pnc record which will show if the person has any previous incidents while I police custody of becoming violent/ concealing drugs or weapons/ mental health issues etc. This things may mean officers are even more cautious.
You have already said this person has been arrested twice, so they are clearly known to the police. You don't know what happened on those occasions other than their account. I work closely with police and have been in the custody suite many times. I've seen people's behaviour change at the flick of a switch. A vast majority of officers will be overly nice to the people they're arresting for the whole purpose of not wanting them to become violent etc.

Finfintytint · 23/07/2018 16:05

Velvet, a warning marker may indicate that the person being arrested has been violent, an escaper, suicidal etc in past dealings with them. As i said, the vast majority of arrests don’t involve any fight. Officers do not enjoy being assaulted or threatened you know but too many have experienced just that.

Finfintytint · 23/07/2018 16:07

Sorry, Blue, I’m a slow typist.

DesignStatement · 23/07/2018 16:08

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/100million-to-guard-21-royals-around-234485

Unbelievable how much the royal family costs taxpayers to protect them ~ and the majority of them are unproductive wastrels.

user1457017537 · 23/07/2018 17:14

I think the poster said police came to arrest him in two separate occasions, not that he had 2 previous arrests.

viques · 23/07/2018 17:29

user the person who needs to 'grow up' is your 50 -or - year old friend who has managed to reach such a great age without realising that littering is an offence, and that abusing public servants, or indeed any one, is a public order offence and IS an arrest able offence.

Being a volunteer is not a get out of jail free card, or an indication that someone is a nice person, as your friend so ably illustrates.

bluemoonchances · 23/07/2018 17:41

User The poster said they were arrested by six officers and then REarrested... which means arrested again.

Redglitter · 23/07/2018 17:56

why is there a need to subject them to the indignity and discomfort of handcuffs? Other than for the officers to enjoy a power trip and assertion of superiority that is

Because even the most compliant and agreeable person can revert to violence when they're arrested. I can't tell you the number of times I've heard of someone arrested for a minor non violent crime who suddenly starts lashing out or trying to run off. They're not cuffed to make cops feel superior. Have you seen how often cops are attacked and injured in the line of duty? It would happen a hell of a lot more without appropriate precautions being taken

VelvetSpoon · 23/07/2018 18:07

Being arrested for the first time in your middle age, and then arrested again a few weeks later scarcely constitutes a career criminal. Although you could argue that after arrest 1 they were known to the police and clearly compliant. So why send more officers and be even more heavy handed?

The attitude displayed by some posters above that the police cannot be wrong and therefore I or the person arrested must be lying/exaggerating/ ignorant of the law/ stupid is really unhelpful. It's the kind of blinkered stance that post the Stephen Lawrence enquiry I would have hoped had gone away.

No profession gets it right all the time. I'm a lawyer and I hear many comments about useless solicitors. Sometimes they're founded, sometimes not, but I don't automatically assume the person making the criticism or saying they have been poorly treated is in the wrong. I have enough insight to know that as a profession we make mistakes.

bluemoonchances · 23/07/2018 18:25

I absolutely agree velvet that people in all professions get it wrong sometimes, but from you first post on this thread you seem to suggest that the majority of police are useless, racist, don't know the law etc. You first post is a very negative sweeping statement. Others are trying to explain why some procedures are done the way they are, and explain that at the moment the cuts have had a huge effect on what the police can achieve. Of course all police don't know all of the law, why and how would they? As a lawyer I'm sure that you aren't fully knowledgable on ALL law. A police officer has to have a basic understanding of all basic laws and for some stuff will need to research other laws. I've seen many lawyers get it wrong too, I've seen solicitors blatantly use illegal tactics with clients in custody, such as let them use a mobile phone when they are (for legal reasons) at that time not allowed to contact anyone. This doesn't make me think that everyone in the legal profession are dodgy unscrupulous people. Like any profession people will remember the bad experience more than the good.
I would expect that like a vast majority of police officers, most lawyers join the profession because they want to help people.

user1457017537 · 23/07/2018 18:33

Is it any wonder some of us think the law is heavy handed in minor situations when the likes of Poppi Worthington’s murderer and abuser has not received the full force of the law

whatyadoing · 23/07/2018 23:31

To the poster who asked what I was calling about - rape.
To the person who suggested they didn't respond because I was safe? He wouldn't let me leave. Yet it took them 5 hours to finally find me at my home.
So don't give me crap about them responding when your life is still in danger. Mine was. 5 hours response time.

OP posts:
HelenaDove · 23/07/2018 23:50

whatyadoing Thanks have you got supportive friends and family you can be with.

5 HOURS and he wouldnt let you leave. FFS

Awwlookatmybabyspider · 24/07/2018 00:00

Flowers.
Im afraid you've got your Tory Government
to thank for the cuts. They keep getting voted back in though, don't they
It brings me absolutely no pleasure to say
this but we've got at least another 3.9 months of this shit.

Karigan198 · 24/07/2018 00:05

Lovely isn't it. You just met the repercussions of budget cuts meaning they have to prioritise. If you aren’t in danger you’ll be further down the list

bluemoonchances · 24/07/2018 08:09

Op if you phoned 999 and told them that you had been raped, your attacker was with you and wouldn't let you leave, and told them your location, and no one came for 5 hours, I'd be putting a complaint in because that should have been a very high priority call. I hope you're able to get support. Hopefully you were put in contact with support agencies when you had your medical examination x

BackInTime · 24/07/2018 09:25

On the two occasions that I have needed to call 999 for the police, the call handler stayed on the phone with me until they arrived. Although I was absolutely terrified I felt very reassured all the way through the call, being told they were on the way then you should see the blue lights in your street. When the police arrived they dealt with the situations brilliantly and professionally and I really couldn’t have asked for more.

I believe most people join the force want to help people and make a difference. It must be incredibly disheartening and frustrating not to have the resources to do the job that they want to do. Hats off to all of them that put themselves in danger to help others.

HelenaDove · 25/07/2018 22:34

"A charity working to stop illegal evictions has urged the Metropolitan police to give its officers better training after they failed to arrest a landlord who allegedly forced his way into a family’s home with a crowbar and tried to drag them down the stairs.

Roz Spencer of Safer Renting, an advice service for tenants backed by four London boroughs, said people were being evicted illegally every week in most British towns and cities, but the police nearly always failed to treat it as a crime. “We would like the police to understand that it is a criminal offence to kick someone out without a possession order,” she said. “Their job is to intervene when a crime has taken place.”

She said that she advised tenants threatened by their landlords to call the police, but had to warn them that the police may dismiss it as a civil matter. “But it is not a civil matter. It is a criminal offence to disregard the Protection from Eviction Act.

Figures seen by the Observer show that the number of families contacting Citizens Advice about illegal evictions has increased by just over 40% since 2014, with nearly 2,000 families seeking assistance last year.

Elise Jones (not her real name) and her two sons were told by her landlord that they would have to leave their rented home in Chingford, north-east London, after Waltham Forest council discovered that the property was not registered under its licensing scheme.

Jones claimed her landlord did not serve her with a legal notice giving at least two months’ notice, and failed to obtain a court order for eviction. Instead, she said, he threatened to cut off the family’s electricity supply and attempted to force his way into their flat on three occasions. She also claimed that he and another man broke down the door of the property using a set of tools including a hammer and a crowbar.
Guardian Today: the headlines, the analysis, the debate - sent direct to you
Read more

Jones’s daughter, who was in the flat when the landlord broke in, said the family feared for their lives. “They grabbed my mum. They grabbed me and my sister. They were hitting my brother with a hammer. They kicked my mum on her belly several times. They dragged us down the stairs,” she claimed. “Oh my God – it was horrible. We didn’t know if we would see tomorrow.” However, when officers from Chingford police station turned up, the family claimed that they arrested neighbours of theirs who had come out to help them, instead of the landlord. “The police didn’t want to hear what we had to say – my neighbours got arrested for defending us,” she said.

The Met said the police aimed to remain impartial and only intervened where a criminal offence occurred or to prevent a breach of the peace. “Should an offence be alleged under the Protection from Eviction Act, the role of the officer attending is to compile a report for the local authority,” the force said in a statement. It added that the men accused of evicting the family were currently under investigation by Waltham Forest police.

Dave Hickling, chair of the Association of Tenancy Relations Officers, whose members enforce anti-eviction laws, said rogue landlords sometimes tried to escape council attention by throwing tenants out. “Local authorities are getting better at dealing with rogue landlords,” he said. “But landlords think the enforcement action will go away if they get rid of the tenants.”

He added: “The police need to be aware of the basics. It is a criminal offence to make your tenant leave unlawfully, be that through harassment or changing locks.”

Research by Shelter, the housing charity, suggests that in 2016 almost 50,000 renters had their belongings thrown out of their home, and the locks changed by their landlords. More than 200,000 renters had been harassed by their landlord and some 600,000 had their home entered by a landlord without permission."

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