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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask a question about what a Catholic would do in a certain scenario for a piece of fiction I'm writing?

101 replies

AjasLipstick · 21/07/2018 14:27

So...the setting is 1890. If an Irish Catholic had to bury a fellow Catholic in a very remote place where there were no churches or priests...how would they go about it?

What things would they be certain to ensure were done? What would they say?

OP posts:
semideponent · 21/07/2018 18:50

And one more...if they had any holy water, they would sprinkle it on the grave, I expect.

CoolCarrie · 21/07/2018 18:57

I don’t imagine sand would cover a body for very long, unless your character dug a very deep grave. Maybe you could have a cave close by, like in The English Patient, and the body could go in there, then prayers. As pp have said many Catholics carry a small bible or prayer book so it’ s a good bet that one of your characters had one. Good luck with your writing.

RuggerHug · 21/07/2018 19:00

Is it during the California pioneer trail OP? Because I'm interested just based on what you've said and am just being nosey now....

apostropheuse · 21/07/2018 19:09

Well, I think they would say a decade of the Rosary, Hail Holy Queen Mother of Mercy..., the De Profundis (Out of the Depths have I cried to thee o Lord...) followed by:

Eternal rest, grant unto him/her O Lord
and let perpetual light shine upon him/her.
May s/he rest in peace. Amen.

then

May his/her soul and the souls of all the faithful departed,
through the mercy of God, rest in peace. Amen.

If they had holy water they would probably sprinkle it on the body.

In my family all the mirrors and the window in the bedroom the body lay in before burial were covered by a white sheet, and a crucifix and candle was placed on the bedside table. Everyone knelt on the floor beside the coffin to pray the Rosary - and down the stairs and into the hall and living room, because funerals were big affairs. That might not be appropriate in your scenario though!

DinosApple · 21/07/2018 19:28

Yy to a decade of the rosary around the dying/deceased, and the eternal rest. I guess it would be in Latin though.

I'd imagine a dessert burial would be a real slog, and you couldn't really get a depth to the grave, but far preferable to carrying a body with you! Some form of cross for a marker would be needed.

Member984815 · 21/07/2018 20:30

The prayers would be in latin at that time.

QuestionableMouse · 21/07/2018 20:37

Iirc a layperson can act as a priest if there's not one available.

The order of Christian funerals says:

Priests, as teachers of faith and ministers of comfort, preside at the funeral rites, especially the Mass; the celebration of the funeral liturgy is especially entrusted to pastors and associate pastors. When no priest is available, deacons, as ministers of the word, of the altar, and of charity, preside at funeral rites. When no priest or deacon is available for the vigil and related rites or the rite of committal, a layperson presides (OCF 14).

QuestionableMouse · 21/07/2018 20:40

In a desert you'd probably be looking at a cairn burial, at least partially. So they'd dig the best hole they could, Bury the body and then cover that with rocks or stones.

Distractotron · 21/07/2018 20:50

I’ve been with a Catholic nun at the point of a catholic person having passed and they said the eternal rest bit - also opened a window to let out the soul although sounds like this wouldn’t be relevant (not sure if superstition rather than religious convention, but it’s what happened).

DramaAlpaca · 21/07/2018 20:59

I've just asked my lapsed Irish Catholic DH. I'm paraphrasing what he said, but here goes: the survivor would whisper a prayer called the Act of Contrition in the other person's ear. The rosary would be said, definitely. At that time it would have been in Latin. As for burial, they'd be buried with rosary beads or a crucifix (made from whatever came to hand like crossed sticks if necessary) clasped in their hands. They'd ideally be buried facing east, which is something to do with the resurrection. The grave would be marked in some way, so a passing priest could say the relevant prayers at some time in the future.

As an aside, if the person was from a country area in the west of Ireland, a farmer for example, there was a tradition of telling the animals he was dead.

BertrandRussell · 21/07/2018 21:01

And They would ask a priest to say a mass for the repose of the soul as soon as they got to own

DontDribbleOnTheCarpet · 21/07/2018 21:07

You could find out what happened in places like Mingulay (Scotland, but very remote with only an occasional visiting priest).

zzzzz · 21/07/2018 23:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SomeonesRealName · 22/07/2018 08:04

Placemarking as this is so fascinating!

Sleepyslops · 22/07/2018 08:17

In the Outlander books they dig a grave, wrap the body in a shroud and bury them. They then put stones on top of the grave (a cairn, I think??). I can't remember the rest, but they do have a service and they also put bread and salt and perhaps some other stuff on top of the body for the sin eater.

They are Scottish Highlanders. Catholic. Based in the 1700s.

BertrandRussell · 22/07/2018 08:40

"The opening the windows and covering mirrors is superstition not religious "
As is the bread and salt for the sin eater.
I think it depends how devout your people are, and how accurate you want to be. In 1890 they would certainly have said the rosary because they would certainly have known the words. I think you can probably use your imagination for anything else.

sashh · 22/07/2018 09:38

Hail Holy Queen Mother of Mercy...

AKA Salva Regina, slight hijack.

We were taught this in Latin in school (and English) and also to sing it, then Evita came out.

blob:https://www.youtube.com/d03af0cf-69e5-429b-9783-769caf59c994

OP

if they say the 'Our Father' it is slightly different to 'The Lord's prayer', it's shorter.

BertrandRussell · 22/07/2018 09:48

To thee we do cry-poor banished children of Eve....."

Such amazing ingrained misogyny. No wonder it's so hard to shake off......

sashh · 22/07/2018 09:50

link that actually works, I had forgotten how fab David Essex was in the 1970s

BertrandRussell · 22/07/2018 09:55

Ah, Dara-the dote!

BertrandRussell · 22/07/2018 09:58

And David Essex! My day is complete.

Unhurried · 22/07/2018 10:03

This has likely been said in a previous post, why not go and speak to a priest?

zzzzz · 22/07/2018 10:15

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Malmsey · 22/07/2018 10:33

But no one’s priest in 2018 is going to be able to issue an edict on what an Irish Catholic might or might not do when burying another Irish Catholic in a unnamed desert in 1890! Unless he’s possibly also a historian of the Irish diaspora.

OP, honestly, you can do more or less anything here, depending on your character, location and what the plot needs. You could have your character remembering a ‘proper’ deathbed in Ireland, with a priest giving the last rites etc, and trying to replicate what little he can of it, but he/she will be improvising, and in the full knowledge that the best they can do is inadequate. The only things to avoid would be anachronistic bits of English liturgy— though you’re safe with Our Fathers and Hail Marys — and a tendency I’ve seen even on this thread, to regard Catholics as ‘other’.

zzzzz · 22/07/2018 11:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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