Aibu to think my child has been singled out?

[justmakemeacuppa]

My daughter has just gone 7 and is ready to move up to brownies only there is no space for her which I understand and accept. That is until I knew that there is other rainbows that were allowed to stay on until a place came up for another term. I asked if this was an option for my daughter which at one point was ok but she’s just come home tonight and I’ve been told again there is no space and couldn’t return. I know she can’t stay forever but it’s really pissed me off that it’s seems to be one rule for most and another rule for my daughter. This is the only group I can take her to without relying on grandparents to take her which they would not be happy doing.
I was a brownie and got picked on by the leader and feel sick my daughter is being singled out but she does enjoy going so maybe my over thinking.

I'd suggest a calm and polite email to the District Commissioner asking for clarification as to what the local policy is about moving up. Is there more than one leader in your unit and the possibility that they're giving different advice? We used to have different approaches to this one in our area between units because the leaders hadn't got together to discuss and each just did what they thought was right / made sense. It still seems odd that different girls in your daughter's unit are being treated differently.

I have no problem with a leaders child getting preferential treatment it makes sence its the ones that are in the same boat as me that have been treated differently.

As a PP has advised, contact your District Commissioner. Your should have been given contact details when your daughter joined Rainbows; failing that, it may be that you'll have to look online & the lowest level you'll be able to find may be the County Commissioner.

If there's not space for a 7yo Rainbow in a Brownie Unit she can get to, she should be allowed to stay on in Rainbows. It's not meant to be the case that girls are ejected on their birthdays - I'm a Brownie Leader & my girls tend to move at 11 not 10: the Girlguiding rule is that girls usually (this takes into count members who needs mean they'll need to stay on longer) move between their 10th & 11th birthdays. I also stretch my Unit out to take up to 28 Brownies (technically our maximum number is 24...).

Your daughter (& her Rainbow peers) should have been given a space at Brownies ahead of any child new to Girlguiding. Whether or not you were able to - or wanted to - move to a different Brownie Unit should have been discussed with parents; & ideally you should have been provided with some information about other local Units. We only have one Rainbow Unit in our District & they don't meet on the same night as their Brownies, so while their members do generally have to move up at 7 other than in exceptional circumstances, parents are given lots of support choosing a Unit that meets their needs.

Please bear in mind that moving to Beavers may not be possible - in the sense that even if there is a Colony that meets somewhere & when that suits you, they may not have spaces for your DD - & even if it is; your DD might not enjoy it: they're not simply interchangeable activities, though obviously they've a common ethos & shared ideals.

Has your daughter a friend you could split pick-ups & drop-offs with if they were to move to a different Unit together? I've had a few lift-share systems in my Unit, including a couple where one family did all the dropping-off at meetings & collections were the other family's responsibility. Do you know anyone with a daughter already at one of the other Units who'd be on for doing that?

Good luck getting it sorted OP - hopefully it'll all be fixed up well before the Autumn Term starts.

justmakemeacuppa I agree with Gargamella about the e-mail but I will reiterate that if your daughter is a keen and active member of Rainbows a place in Brownies should not be denied within the group. If the Brownie leaders have taken in new recruits without working with and liasing with the Rainbow section and discussing who will 'go up' and when the District Commissioner needs to know about this. PM me if you want help with this.

Maybe they already gave her space away because they thought she was leaving.

It may not necessarily be a singled out thing. Maybe they were able to hold spaces for a few kids who should have really moved up but don' have any more and your DDs place has already been given to a child starting ?

I think you need to ask the Leaders within your group if they can clarify the policy first.
Then, if you feel it has not been applied, or, if it is unfair or discriminatory in some way, ask them for the contact details of the District Commissioner. But do find out the policy first.

Giving priority to adults who volunteer within the movement is fairly normal though - it encourages adults to volunteer in whatever way they can (this might not be running a pack night), and seems a very sensible policy to me.

Thank you ZebraOwl for some sane explanation.

ZebraOwl what's the GG equivalent of PoR (Policy. Organisation and Rules) for Scouting. I'm sure the answer will lie within.

If there's not space for a 7yo Rainbow in a Brownie Unit she can get to, she should be allowed to stay on in Rainbows.

But how long should they be able to stay in that group because the parent finds it more convenient? A 12 yo still there? How would new children ever get a chance to come through because parents of older children won't rearrange their schedules or make other arrangements?

Kids activities are generally inconvenient for parents, that's just the way it is. We can't expect every class to fit around what suits us. My son is currently in karate and it means I need to leave work earlier than I normally would and hightail it to class to make it on time. At Christmas he'll go up to the next class and the pressure will be off, but ultimately it's up to me to make arrangements to get him to the activities that he wants, rather than expect the clubs to rearrange things to suit me. I can't expect him to move up early because it will work better.

Random, but brownies used to punish me for going to church (the same church!!!) with Girls Brigade instead, despite the fact that I had parade duties with Brigade lol.

I think cubs/scouts take girls so may see if they have a waiting list.

After being on the waiting list for Rainbows for almost 2 years, I enrolled my DDs in Beavers, where they got in immediately. They enjoy it immensely, and much prefer the more active, physical type of activities to the colouring/crafty type things Rainbows/Brownies do. They're about to finish Cubs and move onto Scouts, and they're still enjoying it.

I would advise finding a Cubs group near you and trying it out. There are bound to be other girls there as well. Good luck!

I'm a brownie leader and I'll try to keep it to the facts. ..

You were offered other brownie units but those weren't convenient. In our district we have parents who would rather be on a wait list for 1 unit than go any of the others with space (even on the same night)

What has the brownie unit said about where you are on the waiting list? They should be able to give an idea when a space will come up

Did you know that the Rainbow section is the only Girlguiding section with mandatory leader/girl ratios in the meeting place? There is a maximum number they can take.

Many rainbow parents resist a move to brownies. It's so hard to find leaders for that age that sometimes you have to be really firm so others can have a go

The rainbow and brownie units are independent units and ones intake policy can be different. 1 of our rainbows talks to parents and the brownie units about a term ahead and knows who is going where, who needs a prod and who might need a term more. The others don't think about it until most of the brownies have offered to others

Girls should only stay past 7 in rainbows /10 in brownies in v v exceptional circumstances. Lots of leaders don't have the conversation early or are scared to lose numbers. The section resources are designed for a specific age and you can see the impact of a delayed transition. Girls who are in guides before 11 tend to stick and with the new program in September they'll need as much time in the age appropriate bit to get a gold award.

It's a unit not class - they are all unpaid volunteers and at this time of the year probably out of pocket and fed up

It's a unit decision as to how waiting lists are managed, all the commissioner can do is check it's explained and consistent within reason. Each of my intake decisions starts with checking all incoming Rainbows. 2 of our 3 rainbow units don't bother to check if we have space then get miffed when I say no because I've already offered and at max capacity. If no word from rainbows from those old enough to join on the waiting list, I normally go with time on the list but I try to balance the age mix.

Long term brownie leader. Rainbows get priority in brownie units so your daughter will be "top" (along with other rainbows) of the Brownie joining list. We always had girls deciding to leave over the summer, so I think you still have a good chance of a place coming up in September.
With regards to the Rainbows, I suspect that the unit was not full and the leaders simply agreed to keep a couple of children on a bit longer. They've said "no" to you simply because you asked last and there are now no spaces left!

@elephantoverthehill
Guiding does not work like Scouting, in groups. There's no automatic right to move up to the next section.
@Zebraowl while it's nice that you can keep girls beyond the normal transfer age, not all groups can do this.
@Redskylastnight it's up to individual units how they handle their waiting lists. Some will have girls who've been on the Brownie waiting list since under 5 yo. So a Rainbow who started in Rainbows at 6 wouldn't be above that girl if that's how they run the lists.
It's up to the parents and the Rainbow leader to ensure the girls are on the Brownie waiting list.
A girl who leaves is not a lifelong member.

I'm a bit unclear if the OP's DD left a Rainbow unit where there was an option to stay to 7.5 but this wasn't suggested, or if that unit doesn't actually offer it. Some do, some don't.
And if you have another unit locally, with spaces, that the GPs can take her to just take that place. You don't appreciate how lucky you are.

Put her name down for cubs for when she's 8.

So what Beccles said...

Thank you there have been some really helpful comments. She was on a waiting list for this group as I couldn’t get her to other groups. I’m happy to go with rules but the rules seem different to each child and trying to have a conversation with the group leader is simply head banging on a wall type thing. She smiles tilts her head and says sorry there’s no places! Which yes I know this I just want to know when a place would come up would I be told, is my daughter just be forgotten about? I’d be happy to volunteer when I could but I’m not in their clique so probably not be taken up on. I’ve asked about another group which I could possibly attend but again nothing! I just feel they don’t want her there.

I'm a Brownie leader with a humongous waiting list and realistically going over my numbers can't happen due to space. If I was in one of the other units hall's I would consider going over 24 girls but for safety I can't.

I've recently had to say to 2 rainbows that they can't have places above the girls starting in August because of the fact they didn't follow the rainbow leader's instructions to email the brownies and get put on the list. They can have places in January when I lose a fair few girls and will have places.

It's not singling out those girls but they didn't contact me before I offer places to the new girls and the rainbow leader warned me they would be contacting me pleading for a space and they did.

We don't want to say no, but sometimes we have to. Those girls are on my waiting list but sometimes in life we just have to wait. There just aren't enough leaders in some places or there aren't halls big enough to accommodate more girls.

I think your own experiences are clouding your judgement in this way. I'm sure being patient will bring a space when there is one.

I guess it's about making sure, regardless of what has gone on so far, that your DD is on the lists for the groups you'd like her to go to and that you are able to accommodate getting her to. It's a shame that she wasn't able just to move up. My boys have been in Scouts since they were 6 and have gone through from Beavers to Cubs to Scouts and then Explorers and it's been pretty seamless, even moving packs was sorted out with an email and this is also with waiting lists but they seem to manage them well. ime, it's the lower age groups such as Beavers and Cubs that have the longest lists. It's the hard core that stay the distance! :o So it's often easier to get a space on Scouts at shorter notice. Explorers have less groups usually so again you need to preplan but the Scouts leadership are very good at managing this and making sure the Scouts have the right information early enough to say if they want to move up.

Personally I would look at all the apporpriate groups but keep in mind that Girls Brigade is a christian organisation (I'm sure they are inclusive to an extent) and therefore follow a broadly Christian programme including church attendances though i am sure this will vary a bit depending on which group.

up to individual units how they handle their waiting lists Yes, I'm aware of that but GG guidelines are that existing members (i.e. girls who are Rainbows) have priority.

I used to run a unit in a district where you could only get a place in Rainbows if you put your daughter's name down before she was 2.5. Consequently we had loads of girls going on the Brownie list at age 3 - I used to treat them as though they had got a place at Rainbows, or they would never have a place at Brownies either!

in Scouting and I think Guiding too there are no age cut off limits due to age and insurance

I was chucked out of brownies for being too old because of insurance so it was certainly a thing at one time

Currently there isn’t a hard upper age limit, and girls can stay past the normal age if there’s a need. This means that a girl with special needs could in theory stay in Rainbows until 18 (or possibly even 25, I’m not sure) if that’s the most appropriate place for her. However with the new programme coming in September, there will be more of a focus on girls staying with their peers and activities being tailored within units. Possibly this is why it’s been decided that your daughter can’t outstay her age after the summer.

I just want to know when a place would come up

How on earth would they be able to know that? They can't predict when someone will leave.

We usually give an estimate but that's based on all the current girls staying till they are too old etc.