AIBU to think women in their sixties are assumed to be competent, but not valuable?

[XingMing]

We've had careers, and families, and are perhaps not sought after as employees as we were once, but AIBU to think that we deserve a bit more than being expected to look after senile in laws and young children, free of charge, for very little in the way of thanks or respect. Or to volunteer for organisations that take take take and give back as little as possible. I would like to do something useful, but have no intention of becoming a useful idiot. How do other people feel?

It is your life, so suggest doing what you wish to. My state retirement age is due to be 68 and I expect that it will increase to 70. So you could get a paid job, volunteer, travel, do things like ladies that lunch. I personally don't think that age stops people doing anything that they want to do. If you don't want to do something, just say no !

I'm in my sixties and work full time as well as being self employed.
If someone in their sixties is working they are surely as valuable as anyone else.

Im 61 and do two jobs both of which i am valued for what i do, i think its down to attitude, i dont feel old, i dont act old, go to live gigs (rock type ones) we go to motorbike rallies at weekends, go out on our bike all over the north east when theres not a rally, im lucky i have good health, and my retirement age will be 66 due to the government

I'm not suggesting age is a barrier to living your life the way you want, simply that opportunity and circumstances seem to circumscribe the options. My Dsis has recently returned from a high flying professional job overseas, and her CVs are going unanswered.

There may be an expectation to look after elderly relatives and grandchildren FOC but that doesn't mean you have to bow to the pressure.

Do what you want to do regardless of the expectations of others. They'll all survive and you will too. Selfish people live longer and you don't have to sacrifice yourself to other peoples expectations.

A person in continuous paid employment should continue to be trained and treated as a valued member of the team.

Are you more concerned with life outside paid work? This is a tricky area. I imagine a person of any age can end up getting put upon when trying to put their free time to unpaid good use.

How old is sister?

Ah ok, your second post puts a different slant on things. I do think in certain industries that there is unspoken ageism and it's worse for women.

In this situation, I think you have to create your own opportunities. I'm self employed and have just started a second company for this very reason. If your sister has a strong skill set and has a wealth of experience she could possibly consult in her field.

Age should not be on CV. Is your sister on LinkedIn, does she have contacts and references. The job market is hard and 100s of people can apply online. Does she Taylor each CV to each job. Has she joined agencies to do temporary work. Nobody is going to just hand you a job, you need to put time and effort into finding one or start your own business.

I wouldn't ever put age on a CV. It's irrelevant.

I was discussing this with my son today. I did a masters and career shifted in my 50s, so am starting again. My immediate line manager (30s) is not ageist/sexist, but her line manager (male) is. She had to fight to get me promoted despite the fact that she often asks my advice - I am very well qualified and experienced in a particular area. I get the impression that there is a certain “look” for the company (young, small, attractive slim) - I do not fit the profile.

Touched a nerve with me OP. I’m 64 and haven’t had a full time job since I was 58. At that age I assumed I’d be a pensioner at 60, but then discovered that I’d fallen neatly into the pension age gap which means I don’t get a state pension till I’m 65 and 3 months .... so less than a year to go now.

At that age I felt too old to start a new career, and it was too little time to top up my pension, so I was left a bit high and dry. No kids, so no grandkids to babysit, I have been grateful for a couple of highly time consuming hobbies, one of which I’ve turned into a profitable small business.

I’ve also fallen into volunteering for the National Trust. They definitely fall into the category of lots of take and very little give, but they have provided an outlet for my time and creative talents, a great new group of friends and acquaintances and a structure of sorts to my otherwise rather random life.

So, am I a useful idiot? I don’t think so. Useful yes, idiot no. My hobby business and NT work are both absorbing and creative in their own way. I feel respected for my abilities and contribution in both and adequately rewarded either financially, or in terms of the feeling of having made a useful contribution. So, I’m busy and interested in what I’m doing.

I was recently asked by the NT if I’d be interested in a volunteer role doing pretty much what I did for a (highly lucrative) living when I was working full time - marketing and PR. They tried to “sell” me the role on the basis of “using my skills and experience for a good cause” etc etc ..... I politely declined. Doing my old job for free did feel like useful idiocy.

I think it’s all about finding a new way forward. Applying oneself, being useful and interested/interesting, applying skills and experience, but doing it for ones own self fulfilment and not getting back into the daily grind - whether that work or looking after the grandkids. It is possible.

One thing I’ve noticed over the years is attitude/outlook to life.

For the older workers in my work there appears to be two groups, the one who continue to be actively involved, stay engaged and willing to take on new things. The second don’t do this and to be honest do become invisible and overlooked because of this.

I dunno your DSis but I do know a lot of ultra-competent scary & highly respected professional women age 60+.

I think you are over generalising.
It's a big leap from your DSis being unable to get a new job, having just arrived in the Country, to all women in their sixties not being valuable. That isn't my experience.

Volunteering for NT ~ yes, all take no give. (Many NT paid staff don't even realise what a highly skilled volunteer group they have ~ the patronising way some paid staff treat volunteers is breathtaking.

However ~ it is great not to be obliged to turn up day in day. Volunteering allows you to take off whenever you like to enjoy friends, trips, walks, drinks............ So take what you want out of volunteering, just don't expect to be paid back.

Of course many 60 plus employees have knowledge, skill and expertise that they have honed over their long careers, but many don't want to keep 'driving' through or to live to someone else's time clock or target profit margin. There comes a time to 'smell the roses', before pushing up the daisies.

However, many 60 plus year olds are sidelined despite their career knowledge and skills. Frustrating waste.

But if they all kept working, what chance do young ones have to get on. (That is why raising retirement age is so ludicrous). Let them go at 60 with pension if they want to and let young people get in to the job market. Those that want to stay on, can stay on.

Win, Win.

All good thoughtful posts, and many thanks to all of you who have taken the time to contribute.

It is, as ever, a new world we have to live in, and adapt to. I am just interested by the mismatch between the twin news strands I am following. Employment is higher than it has ever been, and it is still hard to get work? Surely this ought to be a tautology?

DesignStatement, what new skills are required that weren't needed years ago? Yes, there's new technology but I spent an hour yesterday reading a parallel thread about change in the workplace and encountered Slack and Asana apps being mentioned. I took a look and, hell yes, I could see them working for our business so will follow up. I have used a computer for work since 1983, so don't fear technology's progress. What many people like me resent is the assumption that because your experience is extensive, you are by definition set in your ways. It's not always accurate.

what new skills are required that weren't needed years ago?

XingMing - Not sure I mentioned anything to do with new/old skills. Not sure what you mean.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3308493-The-work-place-has-changed-so-much-in-the-last-twenty-years-how

You may not be asked your age on a job application but they always ask when you left school.
Unfortunately my health took a downturn at 58 and I retired. Have to wait until 66 for my pension though.
I've done lots of volunteering and it's not all as rewarding as you might be led to believe.

What many people like me resent is the assumption that because your experience is extensive, you are by definition set in your ways.

Again, not something I've encountered. If you've worked even 5 years in my job, that means you've had to change the way you do things many times. I wouldn't consider that you be unusual, more 'the norm' in fact, and I'd have thought employers as a whole, would too.

I am in my 50s. I think it depends on your work. I give a lot of public talks, am fairly out there in terms of my career and work (lawyer) and can't be made to retire and hope to work for ages more as it is my firm and I do lots of different things

I think that some employers also want top quality people, but don't always want to pay big salary. Some mployers may also want lots of added extras like people helping with volunteer days, charity funding, work experience visits, first aid, fire warden, flexible hours, joint work focus groups etc Employers want more and more, although it depends what industry you work in. Do all 60 year olds have energy to do all this, compared to a younger person. I too have seen people of all ages, that just want to go to work to do their job, not any extras

If you want to work, do your job and no extras then you have to go self-employed.

My DSis just returned from a top 4 accountancy firm's ME HQ, as a senior HR relocation specialist, only dealing with professionals in senior positions. In late 50s, and would like to work 3 days per week, anywhere between London and Birmingham, but she isn't getting called back even for PA jobs, though these are jobs she could do blindfold with a hand tied. Not a technophobe, either. She's pretty spiffy on systems, having seen most of them.