AIBU to think men prefer fake looking women?

[Bumpitybumper]

I can't help but feel suspicious everytime I read the results from a survey where it is suggested that men prefer the "natural" look. This just doesn't seem to reflect my experience in real life and also what I see on social media or on TV.

We have Kylie Jenner and Kim Kardashian who have both obviously had a LOT of work being viewed as the pinnacle of female attractiveness whilst Meghan from Love Island who has apparently been completely remodeled by surgeon seems to have attracted the most men in Love Island.

AIBU to suggest despite their protestations that men actually don't favour the natural look at all?

*Look at the women in ladz magz.
Look at the 'trophy wives' chosen by men who have their pick of women.
Look at the women who will turn men's heads in everyday life. *

This is what I disagree with. I don't think these are atypical examples.

Ladz Magz are pandering to tittilation. That doesn't make the women in them preferred.
Trophy Wives are invariably enjoyed by men who want to be seen to have such a trophy wife. They aren't typical men. They are as much up their own backsides as their wives.
The women who turn mens heads every day are not necessarily the women that men prefer. They might be striking in some way - legs, hair, looks etc, but it doesn't equate to a preference.

but it does seem to be the fake looking ones that get the louder blokes.
Yes, I think they tend to attract each other.
The other 95% of the world notices it, but we wouldn't want to be with either of them. I think that's how both men and woman fall into the trap of thinking most women want the big flash guy, or most men want the big breasted dolly bird.
They are both eye catching and 'seem' to confirm our beliefs, but in private many women say they don't want that, and the same for men.

Ladz Magz are pandering to tittilation. That doesn't make the women in them preferred.

You're proving my point here! When women are selected purely on the basis of their ability to 'titilate' men, they will never be 'natural'.

Trophy Wives are invariably enjoyed by men who want to be seen to have such a trophy wife.

Again, you're proving my point! When men want to impress other men, they don't go for the clever girl with glasses, no make up and her hair in a bun, but the girl with big (possibly fake and certain enhanced by undergarments) tits, tons of make up, styled hair (probably with extensions) and so on and so forth.

If men were impressed by 'natural' women, wouldn't trophy wives reflect that?

They aren't typical men.

No - they are men who get their choice of women.

And the women they choose are not 'natural'.

The women who turn mens heads every day are not necessarily the women that men prefer. They might be striking in some way - legs, hair, looks etc, but it doesn't equate to a preference.

Oh come on!

You know as well as I do that when men are out together, they're not nudging each other to look at the girl in a baggy sweater and a scrubbed face. They're looking at the girl with styled hair, flattering clothes and maybe high heels.

You know this and I know this.

What evidence can you put forward - other than saying that men fancy their wives without make up - to advance your theory that men go for the 'natural' look?

You're proving my point here! When women are selected purely on the basis of their ability to 'titilate' men, they will never be 'natural'.

I'm not proving your point.
Men say they prefer natural. And you're using lads mags as an example of how they prefer fake. I am arguing that it's not proof at all. What's in a lads mag is no measure of what most men prefer.
I might be a measure of what most lads mags buying men might prefer (but even that's not certain).

@TornFromTheInside
I am fascinated by the post where you describe how people go along with the charade of pretending to fancy the "fake" man/woman because it's all part of a ritual. It's interesting that you explain the difference between men claiming they prefer the natural look when asked but then showing an apparent preference for the fake is because their observable behaviour is deceptive as opposed to them being dishonest (intentionally or unintentionally) when asked about their preference. As someone that has always believed actions speak louder than words I find this quite hard to believe, but it is definitely something I hadn't considered before.

What I find is that more and more women are going for darker eyebrows, thicker dark hair (extentsions), thicker eyelashes (false) and a toned fit looking body and yes, a lot of men like this. But plenty of men still like a delicate blonde type of woman. I have naturally thick eyelashes, dark brows and wavy thick dark hair and I have weight trained for years. I get accused of having work done, and asked what my secret is, because suddenly this look is one that is envied. All those years I wanted to be a delicate thin blonde....
I live in Essex and while I see women who look like the stereotype, there aren't that many of them. Most women look natural and attractive, and so do most men. (We call the others the orange tribe, which is a bit cruel and judgey when I think about it, shall stop that now.)

I hate the way these threads get sneery about women who have surgery or wear a lot of make-up. If someone's a nice person then I couldn't care less if they want to shove silicone in every body part.

Everyone has a personal preference as to what they find attractive. It just depends on who you're asking. I don't find the men on Love Island etc physically attractive because I usually go for more quirky looking men. I'm sure the men on those shows wouldn't find me attractive either because I've got stretch marks and deflated boobs.

*You know as well as I do that when men are out together, they're not nudging each other to look at the girl in a baggy sweater and a scrubbed face. They're looking at the girl with styled hair, flattering clothes and maybe high heels.

You know this and I know this.*

I gave the above example of how both men and women do this with the supposedly 'hot guy' or 'hot girl'. It still doesn't mean it's the preference of either sex.
Group behaviour of men and women out on the town is not a measure of individual preferences. Most of the women and men 'going along' with the banter, don't actually believe it. They know what the stereo typical 'hottie' is, but it doesn't mean they find them hot!

What evidence can you put forward - other than saying that men fancy their wives without make up - to advance your theory that men go for the 'natural' look?
because men are telling you so, and you're refusing to believe it. Men are happily entering relationships with pretty normal women and you're claiming they'd prefer someone or something else. You've got a few men on here telling you that's not the case, and you're using lads mags and celebrity wags as evidence to support your claim?

Normal men prefer normal women. There are exceptions, of course there are, but you're confusing 'a woman who turns head' as the preferred option for men. It's not. A good looking man might turn your head, but it doesn't mean he's your preference in men.

No my 18 year old hates them type of girls we were teasing him about the makeup and beauty girls when he started collage he said they looked liked they been shoot in the face with a makeup gun

Consistently dates girls who were little to no make up and very natural looking

And you're using lads mags as an example of how they prefer fake.
I'm using ladz magz as the women there exist soley to appeal to men. If men don't fancy those women, the magazines won't sell. So it wouldn't make sense for them to use such women, if men didn't like them.

And I'm also talking about what men prefer in everyday life. And the type of women chosen by men who can have their pick.

Show me an example of a situation where men can be shown to reject 'fake' women in favour of 'natural' ones. Show me all these women whose role is to appeal to men who are all 'natural.' Show me where - in practice as opposed to simply saying what they prefer - men seek out 'natural' women.

And btw there isn't a 'fake' versus 'natural' dichotomy. The women pouting in ladz mags are real women, I'm pretty sure. Just with a lot of artifice. Which men seem to prefer, when given the choice.

It's the old 'Madonna / whore' thing. Men want their women in a former category but still want access to women in the latter. They say they want natural women (meaning as a partner / wife / mother etc) but it doesn't mean they're not attracted to the surgically enhanced living embodiment of a sexual fantasy. Does that make sense??

I'm using ladz magz as the women there exist soley to appeal to men. If men don't fancy those women, the magazines won't sell. So it wouldn't make sense for them to use such women, if men didn't like them.

Well there are two issues there:

1. They are using the women who are willing to appear in those mags. That's not the entire polulation of women. It's a very small group they can choose from. Far be it from me to suggest that 'lads mags' models might share a common look...

2. They are selling to a specific segment of lads / men. Again that's not the entire population, nor is it even close to a large percentage of men.
   So whilst they 'might' be pandering to the tastes of lads magazine readers, they aren't pandering to the tastes of the majority are they?

I'm absolutely sure SOME men do like fake looks. Some men like dominatrices, some men like hirsuit women. But that's not an argument to claim most do, or even many do.

Group behaviour of men and women out on the town is not a measure of individual preferences.

It's not just 'out on the town'. The women at work who men fancy aren't the ones with glasses and their hair in a ponytail. They're the ones with make up, styled hair and tight clothes.

because men are telling you so, and you're refusing to believe it.

We've been through this. As I've said at least once, most men really haven't a clue what 'natural' is in a woman, and what men say doesn't seem to reflect what they do - which is more important.

Men are happily entering relationships with pretty normal women and you're claiming they'd prefer someone or something else

No that isn't what I'm saying. What I said is that a) looks aren't the most important thing in a long-term relationship and b) just as people with university degrees mostly marry other people with university degrees, so too good-looking people mostly marry other good-looking people, because like tends to match with like.

A good looking man might turn your head, but it doesn't mean he's your preference in men.

Actually, in terms of looks, he probably would be. That doesn't mean he would necessarily be my ideal partner or that looks are the most important thing. But if I find myself staring at a man I don't know, chances are it's because I fancy him.

Some men do not care if breasts are real or fake as long as they are large and, preferably, upstanding. Don't know what proportion of men as I haven't carried out a survey, just how it seems to me.

They are using the women who are willing to appear in those mags.

What are you talking about?

These women are models! They get paid to appear in those mags! "Maxim" doesn't stand outside train stations asking women to pose in their underwear - they hire models, and pay them well to pose with their tits on stilts and in full make up.

They are selling to a specific segment of lads / men. Again that's not the entire population, nor is it even close to a large percentage of men

Yes, that is true.

But can you give me an example - to repeat - of women who are chosen purely for their appeal to men who can be said to have the 'natural' look?

Show me an example of a situation where men can be shown to reject 'fake' women in favour of 'natural' ones. Show me all these women whose role is to appeal to men who are all 'natural.' Show me where - in practice as opposed to simply saying what they prefer - men seek out 'natural' women.'

I'm showing you one right now - me.
A woman with a so called 'perfect body' - surgically enhanced or otherwise doesn't make a blind bit of difference to me. I might notice her beauty, or perfect figure, but it doesn't make her my preferred option.
I am not alone. Other men on here have expressed the same view.
Perfectly normal people can be sexy in a way that 'miss perfect' isn't. There's just so much more to attraction than the body.

SOME men will be gratified by body alone. That's not being denied, but many more won't be. Why is that so difficult to believe?

Normal men prefer normal women.

Because they’re intimidated by very beautiful women.

I have naturally thick eyelashes, dark brows and wavy thick dark hair and I have weight trained for years. I get accused of having work done, and asked what my secret is, because suddenly this look is one that is envied. All those years I wanted to be a delicate thin blonde....

I get a sadistic joy watching the women who told me I had “guy brows” now desperately try to get dark thick eyebrows lmao.

But can you give me an example - to repeat - of women who are chosen purely for their appeal to men who can be said to have the 'natural' look?

The problem with this question is that in order to give an example that people would know, they would have to be well known - ergo famous. With that, will come the accusation that their wealth has afforded them beauty enhancement.

But still, I will name a few women who appeal to many men who are not conventionally beautiful or fit the 'red hot' stereotype:

Dawn French
Helen Mirren
Kirsty Alsop
Fiona Bruce
Felicity Kendall

These women aren't chosen purely for their appeal to men (I don't think) - they are probably chosen because they are good at their jobs. They just happen to appeal to lots of men and are examples of women who don't 'seem' to be fake.

How can I possibly know which natural looking women were chosen in order to appeal to men? We would never know.

Because they’re intimidated by very beautiful women.

Some might be. You can't assume that in all.
You're also making a specific judgment on beauty there - that anybody 'beautiful' will be intimidating to the men, ergo the women they are with must be less beautiful. Why can't the women that the men are with be the most beautiful woman in that man's eyes?

Think about what you're actually saying. You're effectively saying men are intimidated by beautiful women, so are with less beautiful ones.
Are they intimidated by high intelligence too?
Are they intimidated by success too?

If so, then how do you account for the clear evidence that all men are not partnered with 'less beautiful, less intelligent and less successful' women? Mathematically that's not possible.

The women mentioned in the op are surely mostly followed and made famous by women though, not men.

They are promoters of hyper femininity ( not to my taste) - seems to be very popular with young women. I usually think it's compensation for lack of self worth and self esteem more than anything else.

This will be my last reply because I think we're going around in circles.

The problem with this question is that in order to give an example that people would know, they would have to be well known - ergo famous. With that, will come the accusation that their wealth has afforded them beauty enhancement.

Well no.

I mentioned contexts - ladz magz, trophy wives - where women are chosen only (or mainly) to appeal physically to men. These women are very rarely 'natural'. If you could show me, say, a TV show aimed at appealing to men which featured women in sandals and no make up, you'd have a point. But I bet you can't.

These women aren't chosen purely for their appeal to men (I don't think) - they are probably chosen because they are good at their jobs. They just happen to appeal to lots of men and are examples of women who don't 'seem' to be fake.

Yeah, but other than a younger Mirren, they're hardly top of the 'hottest women' lists, are they? And I'd say they're all conventionally good-looking women.

And I never said that men are unable to appreciate women who don't have plastic tits or hair extensions, or that looks are the main thing in finding someone attractive.

Just that men seem to like 'natural fakery' a bit more than they let on. Or even a bit more than they are aware of.

Totally agree with @TheClitterati

People (particularly younger women) are being duped into believing these celebs are truly popular, and their 'look' is hugely appealing.

Admitted, I'm no longer young, but I work with young men and hear many of their conversations. They frequently mock the absurdity of many of the fake looks. They absolutely will turn their heads at a 'looker' in the street - but it'll soon be followed with a negative comment too. It's like 'sure she got our attention - but not for the reasons she thinks'.

Because some of the loud lads are the ones that people notice and hear, we really shouldn't forget the countless quiet lads who think differently. Their voices just tend to go unheard. An awful lot of young men are not swayed by the fakery.

Maxim's not been in print in the UK since 2009, so they're not selling an ideal that's bought into in that respect.

You're effectively saying men are intimidated by beautiful women, so are with less beautiful ones.
Are they intimidated by high intelligence too?
Are they intimidated by success too?

Some are, yes.

Personal taste factors into it, but I think it’s fair to assume most people are with someone of a similar attractiveness to them.