To think kids are too young to make life changing decision like this?

[Pratchet]

www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/restrictions-on-children-changing-their-gender-to-be-lifted-1.3568384?mode=amp&__twitter_impression=true

If they start 'social transition' it can lead to drugs which sterilise them - there's no way they can understand what this means for the rest of their life

Totally agree with you. Am very surprised that this has been passed. Now, even without parental consent, a child can turn to an advocate if they wish to transition under the age of 16.

Next step is taking away any requirement to parental consent. Next step is parents who do not immediately comply having their children removed.

Frightening times we live in.

We are frogs being gently boiled in a pan.

The lobbying continues and politicians - whose job is to think about the consequences of laws - cave into the pressure groups' demands.

I wonder if the usual lies and manipulated statistics were used..

YANBU

children under the age of 16 are currently prohibited from accessing gender recognition

what is gender recognition? If it is a mealy mouthed way of saying puberty blockers the side effects of which can include memory problems and depression, or hormone treatment, which can lead to a decrease in IQ, then hell yes those under 16 should be prohibited from accessing it.

what is wrong with our politicians that they would suggest a change to this state of affairs?

Most gender non conforming kids turn out to be gay anyway. This is like turning gay kids into the opposite sex so that voila! They are no longer gay. Talk about homophobic. This is like gay conversion therapy!

It's what they do in countries like Russia and Iran. Think you're gay? No you're the opposite sex.

YADNBU. This terrifies me. It's exactly that, think you're gay and we'll just change your gender. Terrifying.

I can see both sides to this but I think think I’m more on the side of not allowing transition at a younger age. I’m not sure how easy it is for children so young to be able to differentiate between gender and sexuality. On the other side if a child genuinely does know they are the wrong gender then I can imagine going through puberty as the opposite gender could be extremely traumatic and could massively effect their mental health.

It’s such a difficult and complex thing that I don’t know how anyone can enforce such black and white rules.

Heard about this on the news this morning.

If you read the article it clearly states only with both parents consent

The report recommends that all children under the age of 18 should be allowed to change their gender if they have consent from both parents.

Pomegranatemolasses parents consent is needed

Its yet another form of gay conversion 'therapy'. The fact its so popular in authoritarian countries and cultures should be a clue that its homophobic.

In a world where you can't consent to sex before 16 and can't have a fucking tattoo before 18, it is madness to allow children to choose take drugs that will cause permanent damage to healthy bodies.

The article doesn't say that children will be given medication. There's no suggestion in the article that this report is encouraging hormone treatment at all.

It's about a report that may lead to proposal to change legislation in Republic of Ireland to allow a gender recognition certificate for younger people if both parents consent, and recommends that it should include a process for those children to reverse their decision without difficulty.

why would we allow someone who is not deemed competent to agree to - marriage

• sexual intercourse

-a tattoo as competent to change their gender?

crazy

and regarding medical treatment, of course, children are already receiving puberty blockers so no need to advocate that....

even more crazy

I am scared for these kids. It could easily take a generation to turn this around, a generation for these kids who transitioned pre-puberty to grow up and fix the system we are currently creating for them.

I keep thinking about the notion of thinking one's been born in the wrong body. I think this could apply to people born with disabilities, to men who feel shamed by the size of their penises or women who feel shamed by not having the perfect body, etc. There's an awful lot of body shame around and the issue of gender feels to me like a part of this bigger picture.

I come from a family of tall people. As a child I looked forward to growing up, literally, but only just barely made it to 5'7" and being the short one in my family was hard to accept. I was also a beanpole until my late 20's, poor and felt very unfeminine and ugly so I dressed in loose fitting gender neutral clothing. I would get teased for being a "dyke" etc. It was only in my late 20's that I started to develop some appreciation for my body, and it wasn't until my mid 40's that I really started to positively accept my body. These poor young children are feeling awkward in their bodies, in my own way I get that, but this medicalisation of that process is so frightening.

RC did you realise that these articles are about different countries? One is about RoI the other England. The article the thread is linked to doesn't advocate medical treatment with puberty blockers. And the consent of both parents is still required, so it's not just a child deciding they want to have a GRC.

There's nothing like giving kids the impression they can anything they want at all times, with no drawbacks, is there?

"I want to be a girl!"
"OK, sign this."
"I don't like it!"
"OK, sign this...."

Most of these comments bear absolutely no relation to the article at all, did you just write outraged comments without reading?

I just wish we could abolish the phrase "gender assigned at birth". At the baby check, the gender is not assigned. The sex is observed and recorded. Society then decides to stick the gender rubbish on afterwards. If we could be more accurate in our terminology for the difference between sex (biology) and gender (society) it would be so much easier to actually discuss the issues sensibly.

The article doesn't say that children will be given medication. There's no suggestion in the article that this report is encouraging hormone treatment at all

Erm - allowing them to officially change 'gender' won't encourage that? Yes it will. Plus, transadvocates don't even know what gender is or sex or male or female so how is a kid supposed to know?

Conflating a report on possible changes to legislation on how young people may obtain GRC document in Ireland with conversion therapy, homophobia and sterilising children is not helpful.

I'm not aware of any studies that evidence possession of a GRC as increasing likelihood of use of hormone blockers at a young age, which seems to be what some posters are concerned about. Perhaps it's speculation or presumption?

Iirc the watch and wait policy applied by NHS England has found that recognition of preferred gender reduces severity of dysphoria and helps young people to wait longer before taking medication, or deciding they're ok in their original gender. I don't have any stats etc though so not sure.

Tricky area. I'm glad the NHS does watch and wait. Seems v sensible to me.

Except in the case of the 800 children in the article I linked to, the NHS does not seem to watch and wait. It seems to be doing 'inject with powerful drugs being administered off label to children'.

so not so great really.

don't get me wrong, if children want to comply with the stereotypes typically associated with the opposite sex that's obviously fine.

but why would you let someone who is not deemed competent to make other potentially life changing decisions decide to change their gender?

why would you let someone who is not deemed competent to make other potentially life changing decisions decide to change their gender

You probably shouldn't, hence needing permission from both parents. But again, that's Ireland, not covered by NHS England so different scenarios in any event.

parents cannot give consent for under 16s to marry, or get a tattoo. why should changing gender be different?