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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

*WOMEN!!* Stop talking, you're not allowed.....

126 replies

SuitedandBooted · 19/07/2018 10:18

womansplaceuk.org/turning-the-tide-brighton-16th-july-2018/

For those who missed it;
Yet AGAIN, more intimidation of women, who wanted to hold a LEGAL meeting, and discuss their LEGAL rights.

Turning the Tide: Brighton 16th July 2018

On Monday 16th July, Woman’s Place UK held a meeting in Brighton

The meeting was organised in response to a request by local women, as has been the case with all our meetings.

There was a lot of interest in this meeting with 190 tickets booked. The meeting was clearly welcomed by a significant number of local residents. It is also worth noting that Brighton Pavilion has the highest number of signatures to the parliamentary petition ‘To consult with women on proposals to enshrine ‘gender identity’ in law’

When the booking was made with Friends Meeting House Brighton, local organisers discussed in detail the nature of the meeting and that previous meetings had been protested. Despite this, the venue was happy to go ahead and accommodate our meeting.

We usually organise our meetings for mid or late week as these days are generally better for those who wish to attend. It was the suggestion of the FMH Brighton that we schedule the meeting for a Monday evening as the venue is usually closed and no other users would be inconvenienced or harassed by any protests as had happened in Oxford.

A July date was chosen to fit in with the schedule of other meetings being arranged and with the availability of local organisers before the summer break. Woman’s Place UK only learnt about Trans-Pride events the week before the meeting and the scheduling was entirely coincidental.

After lobbying by individuals (see previous statement), FMH Brighton cancelled our booking with only 5 days’ notice giving us no opportunity to address concerns that had been raised or to meet with them. We are still unclear how someone outside WPUK knew of our booking and we are investigating this.

We had sold over 150 tickets by that point and needed to find an alternative venue, which we did.

Local organisers made, and paid for, a booking at two other venues. Both were fully briefed about the nature of the meeting. One of the organisers went in to Jury’s Inn and met with staff. She explained what the meeting was about, took some written information and materials from the campaign. She explained that previous meetings had been protested and that a security team had been employed. We made every effort to ensure that the staff at Jury’s Inn were fully aware of the meeting content and possible protest. They were happy to go ahead.

Because of the high level of threat, we announced the venue much later than usual with ticket holders receiving details of the venue from 5.30pm onwards. We did this to try and reduce the amount of harassment for the venue and for our attendees. An agreement not to publicise or share the venue is part of the terms and conditions of ticket purchase.

Despite this, in breach of the conditions of purchase and with little regard for the safety of or rights of attendees or workers, some ticket holders leaked the venue on social media.

On the evening of the meeting, large noisy protests were set up at both entrances to the hotel. Police were in attendance. After the meeting had started, the hotel management approached us and said they wanted to cancel the meeting. They also said the hotel was being inundated with abusive phone calls which were upsetting the staff.

We were very concerned for the safety of our attendees if they had to leave and we felt aggrieved that a booking made in honesty and good faith was now under threat because of a protest. We persuaded them that the best option was to let the meeting continue. We agreed to finish early and discussed how to enable attendees at the meeting to exit the building safely through a range of different exits.

During this conversation, a representative of the protest came up to the manager and said they would finish their protest at 9.30pm.

The meeting went ahead and was concluded early at 9.15 as promised to the hotel management. Many women were afraid to leave through the main exits and we had to escort several of them out through the car park and side exits. Some women went to the bar hoping the protest would disperse and they could leave later without fear.

Despite the meeting ending at 9.15pm, the protests continued until at least 10.30pm causing great, and unnecessary, convenience to hotel guests. Several came down to complain about the noise.

We truly regret the inconvenience caused to those guests but we were not responsible for it. We are sickened by the abuse and harassment the hotel staff faced for honouring a booking made by a group of women for a legitimate meeting on rights they hold in law.

We would like to thank all the brave people who attended the meeting on Monday, all our speakers and the local organisers who persisted in asserting their right to meet and discuss issues of concern to them in the face of abuse, harassment, intimidation and threat.

The recently announced consultation on reform of Gender Recognition Act has stated the need to engage with all perspectives and yet, once again, we have seen how women face intimidation when meeting to discuss this issue. Councils, universities and other civic institutions have a duty to uphold democracy and provide venues where women’s voices can be heard. We call on them now to do so and facilitate this debate

OP posts:
Rufustheyawningreindeer · 21/07/2018 10:05

Although what made me think of it was that the article didn't mention it at all...no blame there

RememberMyNames · 21/07/2018 10:36

Thanks Rufus. It all got a bit confusing there!

Extrapolation might be a useful term for posts that's do the word twisting extendy thing and write their post as if the person they are challenging actually said the made up bullshit things. It's such a hopeless and low tactic and puts everyone immediately in the position of having to defend themselves for things they did not even say in the first place. Total thread space waster.

Example in this thread was Arieole posting "What kind of person are you to condone this level of violence and abuse. " to me, when I hadn't said any such thing.

Extrapolating is just a derail in disguise, and all it does is raise the temperature and divert attention and energy from whatever was being discussed before that.

It would be nice to see that disappear from mn, but it's never going to happen. Too much of a tempting habit for some posters!

ToeToToe · 21/07/2018 11:02

What a very preachy post Hmm

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 21/07/2018 12:40

remember

Well it was certainly a very twisty disingenuous ' oh so you are saying...' poster that came up with it

Fienda · 21/07/2018 13:04
Grin
TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 21/07/2018 14:02

Extrapolation might be a useful term for posts that's do the word twisting extendy thing and write their post as if the person they are challenging actually said the made up bullshit things. It's such a hopeless and low tactic and puts everyone immediately in the position of having to defend themselves for things they did not even say in the first place. Total thread space waster.

What is the word for 'it wasn't in the actual news article but it was in the comments, so i [not extrapolated] to say that 'Sussex police recorded two incidents at the event venue. One assault and one hate crime, allegedly by meeting attendees, not protestors.' at 23:20 on the 19th

when the comment to which you say you refer to was:

MissHoney 20th July 9:24 am
Im glad you enjoyed the meeting. Do you care to comment on the two people from the meeting that were involved in the recorded incidents of assault and hate speech against the protestors, or the attendee of the meeting who has since been bragging on social media about having spat at the back of the protestors heads?

As to be honest it looks like you knew this before the post was posted...which is fucking amazing.

IJustHadToNameChange · 21/07/2018 14:07

The alleged spitting incident didn't happen at all - after it was proven that the Facebook account the allegation came from was faked.

People have had to apologise to the women whose name and face were used in the fake account.

You're about 48 hours too slow on that one.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 21/07/2018 14:09

I couldnt be arsed to read the comments

But that is weird...

Miss honey? Wasnt that a character from a roald dahl book

Where do i recognise that from...im sure its been mentioned recently on here

Anyoo...still weird that miss honey seems to have all the gossip Smile

TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 21/07/2018 14:10

The alleged spitting incident didn't happen at all - after it was proven that the Facebook account the allegation came from was faked.

People have had to apologise to the women whose name and face were used in the fake account.

You're about 48 hours too slow on that one.

Who are you talking to?

I know the spitting incident didn't happen, I was referring to the fantastic abilities of RememberMyNames to predict comments on a news thread.

ToeToToe · 21/07/2018 14:16

It does seem an amazing psychic ability.

ToeToToe · 21/07/2018 14:17

I think I'll just go and make a few BTL comment on news stories - and claim they are the part of the actual article too.

TheMostBeautifulDogInTheWorld · 21/07/2018 14:50

I think I'll just go and make a few BTL comment on news stories - and claim they are the part of the actual article too.

Don't forget to create a fake facebook profile first and put something libellous on it, and then refer to that in your comment, Toe.

RememberMyNames · 21/07/2018 16:04

Weird. The comment wasn't that one, it said something like "to be clear, the two incidents with police involvement were people from the meeting" and it was posted fairly early on in the comments. Probably the same commenter though, and seeing them repeat the spitting thing makes me doubt they were being entirely honest about the incidents either.

Guessing someone reported it the comment as it wasn't backed up by the article and could be viewed as total bullshit and defamatory? No idea, but seems likely.

Sorry to disappoint but no conspiracy or looking into the future. Just a comment that was there yesterday and now seems to have been deleted, for fairly obvious reasons of being an unsubstantiated allegation that might be harmful to the organisation involved.

Carry on painting everyone who fails to join the gang as a troll though. It really adds conviction to the GC arguments, I'm sure, and it does seem like a tremendously fun game to play with your friends.

So for the record, again, I said allegedly right from the off, exactly because it was in the comments not the article, and therefore unsubstantiated. Someone asked where I saw it and I posted the link. It not some mystery hunt trying to fox you all. Whatever the fb thing is it's nothing to do with me, and I'm nothing to do with the commenter on the article either.

So fuck off with the troll hunting. It's not big, it's not clever and it makes you look like a clique of playground cool girls who secretly know that's they aren't all that popular really because they're actually quite mean to anyone who isn't in their gang and dares to disagree and tell them so.

I expect you're going to carry on anyway with more jibes, allusions, digs and insinuation. Not my problem. Enjoy your rage and have a lovely day.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 21/07/2018 16:14

remember

Really sorry

Am i missing something?

I think i might be

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 21/07/2018 16:18

Why would you be something to do with the commentator on the article?

Ive obviously missed something massive...as usual

ToeToToe · 21/07/2018 16:24

Nobody's troll hunting - you claimed something, said it was in an article, then it turns out it was a BTL comment, which anyone could have written. Furthermore, the only comment visible now - is one written after you wrote that post.

Using the word "Apparently" doesn't make it clear that you're referring to a BTL comment.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 21/07/2018 16:33

I agree with toe

Why would anyone troll hunt when you haven't said anything trollish

I think people think the quotes on the article are a bit suspect as they were made just after the event so probably just rumours...

Aurielia · 21/07/2018 20:11

RememberMyNames

Extrapolation might be a useful term for posts that's do the word twisting extendy thing and write their post as if the person they are challenging actually said the made up bullshit things. It's such a hopeless and low tactic and puts everyone immediately in the position of having to defend themselves for things they did not even say in the first place. Total thread space waster.

Example in this thread was Arieole posting "What kind of person are you to condone this level of violence and abuse. " to me, when I hadn't said any such thing.

I presume Arieole is meant to be me?

As I said previously I have no problems with anyone here seeing what I wrote or the exact quote of yours that seemed like you was victim blaming. Again I wasn't the only one who thought you was. I definitely didn't need to twist your words, they are plain to see.

The 'what kind of person are you' was my response if you were you were victim blaming like I originally thought.

I did thank you in another post for clarifying your stance on the matter. To which you didn't respond. Thought if it makes you feel better I'll be the big bad meanie. Consider me told. I will never take your written words to heart again, I promise.

dianebrewster · 21/07/2018 20:35

I would be grateful if remembermynames would stop speaking as though they had any insight into why Quakers cancelled the meeting.

I am a Quaker, I was there with a whole row full of other Quakers. Including some members of Brighton meeting. There will be ongoing discussion about this. There are a large number of GC Quakers concerned about Self ID.

One of our testimonies is to truth. It's fundamental to our self understanding. "Speaking truth to power" was originally a Quaker saying. We were at the forefront of gay rights, we were at the forefront of the push for equal marriage. We march, we protest for social justice. We are not generally known for being prejudiced, mean or nasty. People like that are not generally attracted to Friends, if they were they wouldn't last long.

Don't you find it curious that so many people who have spent their lives opposing hate are saying "hang on a minute" when it comes to self ID? Quakers, trade unionists, feminists.... many of us life long trans allies. What do you think is going on here?

TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 21/07/2018 21:14

Don't you find it curious that so many people who have spent their lives opposing hate are saying "hang on a minute" when it comes to self ID? Quakers, trade unionists, feminists.... many of us life long trans allies. What do you think is going on here?

Who cares? All those women at the meeting were old and irrelevant remember...nobody gives a shit about their opinion in the new world order.

asri · 21/07/2018 21:18

Wow. You could be a Mumsnet twin of Daimbars. Identical ways of writing, identical expressions, and identical unpleasantness.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 21/07/2018 21:24

Ooooh, its becoming clearer Grin

TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 21/07/2018 21:24

Like hand twins, but typed out...

RememberMyNames · 21/07/2018 22:27

Aurielia, sorry for getting your name wrong, and for using your post as an example. No offense meant, and I should have acknowledged your apology at that point.

Toe, I see what you're saying about below the line (didn't know what that meant and had to look it up though!) and I'll bear that I need mind in the same circs another time. I thought allegedly would be enough, but clearly not.

DianeB, I'm not claiming any insight to the Quakers - I have quoted exactly here their two statements, and then defended their position in having cancelled the booking because it seemed pretty sensible considering what's happened at previous meetings. Their words, not mine, so maybe take it up with the Quaker groups who issued the statements about whose insights they were channeling. I'm sorry if that's offended you.

I do find it curious, which I why I joined this thread and looked to see what the Quakers said about the cancellation. I'd like to understand GC views better but it's hard to get to the real bits in amongst the hyperbole at times.

Asri, I'm not Daimbars, but thanks for the lovely dismissive insinuation. Do report me if you think I'm sock puppeting.

Rufus, I'm glad you're clear on it because I'm not, at all. If you really can't see the troll hunting and insinuation going on then fair enough.

Tells, think whatever you want. Still not Daimbars. Don't know them, nothing to do with them. Don't know why you said the people at the meeting were old and irrelevant? I don't know, I wasn't there, just read about it in the press and on the WPUK site that was linked from here. It seems like a lot of people do give a shit about their views too!

This thread is going nowhere useful or interesting anymore, so thanks for the chats, but I think I'll maybe duck out from being picked apart in the next round. Its a total waste of time when it gets like this.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 21/07/2018 22:45

remember

I can see cryptic posts

But I thought trollhunting was when someone said something on the thread in a goady fashion or told lies and others picked up on it

So i cant see where youve done that, you said allegedly and explained your thinking sooooo....

I meant that i can see now what people are insinuating...no idea if its true

But i can see you think everyone is ganging up on you, so I'll just leave it as that and not respond again

Swipe left for the next trending thread