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*WOMEN!!* Stop talking, you're not allowed.....

126 replies

SuitedandBooted · 19/07/2018 10:18

womansplaceuk.org/turning-the-tide-brighton-16th-july-2018/

For those who missed it;
Yet AGAIN, more intimidation of women, who wanted to hold a LEGAL meeting, and discuss their LEGAL rights.

Turning the Tide: Brighton 16th July 2018

On Monday 16th July, Woman’s Place UK held a meeting in Brighton

The meeting was organised in response to a request by local women, as has been the case with all our meetings.

There was a lot of interest in this meeting with 190 tickets booked. The meeting was clearly welcomed by a significant number of local residents. It is also worth noting that Brighton Pavilion has the highest number of signatures to the parliamentary petition ‘To consult with women on proposals to enshrine ‘gender identity’ in law’

When the booking was made with Friends Meeting House Brighton, local organisers discussed in detail the nature of the meeting and that previous meetings had been protested. Despite this, the venue was happy to go ahead and accommodate our meeting.

We usually organise our meetings for mid or late week as these days are generally better for those who wish to attend. It was the suggestion of the FMH Brighton that we schedule the meeting for a Monday evening as the venue is usually closed and no other users would be inconvenienced or harassed by any protests as had happened in Oxford.

A July date was chosen to fit in with the schedule of other meetings being arranged and with the availability of local organisers before the summer break. Woman’s Place UK only learnt about Trans-Pride events the week before the meeting and the scheduling was entirely coincidental.

After lobbying by individuals (see previous statement), FMH Brighton cancelled our booking with only 5 days’ notice giving us no opportunity to address concerns that had been raised or to meet with them. We are still unclear how someone outside WPUK knew of our booking and we are investigating this.

We had sold over 150 tickets by that point and needed to find an alternative venue, which we did.

Local organisers made, and paid for, a booking at two other venues. Both were fully briefed about the nature of the meeting. One of the organisers went in to Jury’s Inn and met with staff. She explained what the meeting was about, took some written information and materials from the campaign. She explained that previous meetings had been protested and that a security team had been employed. We made every effort to ensure that the staff at Jury’s Inn were fully aware of the meeting content and possible protest. They were happy to go ahead.

Because of the high level of threat, we announced the venue much later than usual with ticket holders receiving details of the venue from 5.30pm onwards. We did this to try and reduce the amount of harassment for the venue and for our attendees. An agreement not to publicise or share the venue is part of the terms and conditions of ticket purchase.

Despite this, in breach of the conditions of purchase and with little regard for the safety of or rights of attendees or workers, some ticket holders leaked the venue on social media.

On the evening of the meeting, large noisy protests were set up at both entrances to the hotel. Police were in attendance. After the meeting had started, the hotel management approached us and said they wanted to cancel the meeting. They also said the hotel was being inundated with abusive phone calls which were upsetting the staff.

We were very concerned for the safety of our attendees if they had to leave and we felt aggrieved that a booking made in honesty and good faith was now under threat because of a protest. We persuaded them that the best option was to let the meeting continue. We agreed to finish early and discussed how to enable attendees at the meeting to exit the building safely through a range of different exits.

During this conversation, a representative of the protest came up to the manager and said they would finish their protest at 9.30pm.

The meeting went ahead and was concluded early at 9.15 as promised to the hotel management. Many women were afraid to leave through the main exits and we had to escort several of them out through the car park and side exits. Some women went to the bar hoping the protest would disperse and they could leave later without fear.

Despite the meeting ending at 9.15pm, the protests continued until at least 10.30pm causing great, and unnecessary, convenience to hotel guests. Several came down to complain about the noise.

We truly regret the inconvenience caused to those guests but we were not responsible for it. We are sickened by the abuse and harassment the hotel staff faced for honouring a booking made by a group of women for a legitimate meeting on rights they hold in law.

We would like to thank all the brave people who attended the meeting on Monday, all our speakers and the local organisers who persisted in asserting their right to meet and discuss issues of concern to them in the face of abuse, harassment, intimidation and threat.

The recently announced consultation on reform of Gender Recognition Act has stated the need to engage with all perspectives and yet, once again, we have seen how women face intimidation when meeting to discuss this issue. Councils, universities and other civic institutions have a duty to uphold democracy and provide venues where women’s voices can be heard. We call on them now to do so and facilitate this debate

OP posts:
RememberMyNames · 20/07/2018 08:43

Fiends that's the bit that's making a nonsense of it all exactly.

WPUK says it's meetings are not the cause of acrimony and discord. But there is all this talk about terrorism harassment bullying etc to venues of previous events, and police involvement.

Both those things can't be true, and it's impossible to tell from the outside which is which, so odds are there's truth in both versions of events.

A couple of posts before yours is an eyebrow raising attack on the Quakers for choosing not to host from a feminist board regular. It's not obvious who the baddies are here, but the last ones on my list of likely baddies are the Quakers!

TrojanWhore · 20/07/2018 08:57

Didn't notice it was during Trans Pride?

Yeah, right

Just find another date that doesn't clash.

Fienda · 20/07/2018 09:02

But that's just victim blaming Remember.

You can't say: if terrorists treat you badly for doing (whatever), just stop doing it and it'll all be better.

WPUK aren't meeting to create^^ discord, or instigate violence. They're meeting to talk about the existence of women. You can see transcripts and videos of everything said online, there's no incitement to violence going on.

They've been met with extraordinary, unprecedented and violent resistance. One politician said he'd never known anything like it.

In terms of Quakers, while I don't share the anger of the above poster, I wouldn't put them all automatically above any questioning either.

Two of my best friends at university were Quakers, and I went to many events and meetings over the years. I loved their community - but they're all human and get stuff wrong too.

ToeToToe · 20/07/2018 09:49

Thanks for posting, OP.

People need to be aware of the harassment of women wishing to meet up to discuss the impact of the Gender recognition Act and self ID.

UneMoonit · 20/07/2018 09:59

...and this is why, as I've said before, we should have stood unambiguously against violent no-platforming and political repression, instead of standing idly and letting this become an acceptable thing because we didn't like the targets, now the same thing is turned on us.

To some extent we are being hoist by our own petard, in this case our petard being the so-called third wave and its love affair with this sort of behaviour. This is the thing about silencing free speech - first it comes for people you disagree with, and that is the moment you choose whether to stand up for it. If you choose not to, it WILL come for you at some point.

UneMoonit · 20/07/2018 10:00

Stand against it* sorry edited twice.

Stilettosandan0venglove · 20/07/2018 10:12

If you can't stop women talking, just make up a load of shit about them instead:

womansplaceuk.org/social-media-attacks-on-wpuk/

It is now clear somebody created a fake FB account using a photograph of a woman without her permission and made posts implying she was a ticketholder to our #WPUK event in Brighton. After the event they posted, as if from her, that she had spat at a protestor and thought it was funny. This post was screenshotted and posted on Twitter.

This was then used to attack Woman’s Place UK by impugning the attendees at Monday’s meeting and promote lies about us and our supporters. The account has been reported and removed but, as we know, a lie is often half way round the world before the truth has got its boots on. (Continues...)

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 20/07/2018 11:13

If you can't stop women talking, just make up a load of shit about them instead:

Oooh i saw that on the other thread stilettos

I do hope that woman in the picture is ok

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 20/07/2018 11:16

You can't say: if terrorists treat you badly for doing (whatever), just stop doing it and it'll all be better.

Well exactly

RememberMyNames · 20/07/2018 11:34

I don't think anyone did say that.

WPUK feel it's wrong of the Quakers to say that their meetings cause acrimony and discord.

The Quakers maybe have a point though, because the actions of people against the meetings are being described by WPUK supporters as terrorism. They are not obliged to host meetings that are considered likely to be subject to terrorist action.

Stilettos, perhaps not a good idea to draw yet more attention and people to go have a look at the social media trolling thing involving a photo of someone not involved being misused? The photo is right there in the sidebar on that WPUK link in their twitter feed now, and posting s link sending yet more people that way to see it is just making things worse for the person involved.

TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 20/07/2018 12:58

The photo is right there in the sidebar on that WPUK link in their twitter feed now, and posting s link sending yet more people that way to see it is just making things worse for the person involved.

Yes, especially as some [word deleted by MNHQ] posted it on here yesterday, after THEY THEMSELVES thanked MNers for not doxxing them after they outed themselves on twitter.

Now, what sort of person would do a thing like that?

Fienda · 20/07/2018 13:04

Ironically we do remember your names.

ToeToToe · 20/07/2018 13:10

If you can't stop women talking, just make up a load of shit about them instead

Yes indeed. This particular faked FB account was even shared on MN FWR section yesterday, as genuine. (By a very misguided poster, but still shared nonetheless).

It is true that a lie gets halfway round the world before the truth has even got it's trousers on.

Two women were defamed by this faked FB profile- one woman's name was used, and a different woman's picture. Dr Adrian Harrop has had to issue an apology for his remarks to one of the women. And will be making a donation to charity. Hope it's a decent one, Adrian. A decent charity and a decent donation.

Stilettosandan0venglove · 20/07/2018 14:18

Actually I think it's fine to share that link, to a statement that explains the truth, clears the women who were defamed, and exposes the nasty smear campaign that WPUK are subject to.

Who wouldn't want that?

WPUK say:
We refuse to be side tracked by the vindictiveness of such campaigns. We are interested in a resolution that upholds the rights of everyone. We are not afraid of debate. We welcome it.

We call on our detractors to cease these attacks and to engage with us in serious discussion.

We are asking you to share this statement on all your social media platforms with all your followers and friends.

It is time this nonsense stopped.

womansplaceuk.org/social-media-attacks-on-wpuk/

TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 20/07/2018 14:21

Actually I think it's fine to share that link, to a statement that explains the truth, clears the women who were defamed, and exposes the nasty smear campaign that WPUK are subject to.

It is a dig as to why someone with a different user name had their original post removed, but yours is allowed to stand...to prove double standards...

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 20/07/2018 14:49

remember

Fair point re the picture

Unfortunately it may be too late as a poster purposely put it on the WPUK brighton thread in order to (obviously falsely) 'shame' feminists

I'm sure that poster didn't realise that it was a fake...but it maybe too late as its already on quite a busy thread in FWR (now closed)

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 20/07/2018 14:50

Oh sorry

I see toe got there first

terfterf · 20/07/2018 15:37

I've been to two WPUK meetings held in Friends Meeting Houses, so it's not like they (Quakers) don't know what it's all about! One had a protest outside, the other didn't. Evidently the TRAs are ramping up the intimidation levels with the phone calls, the bomb threat, the fake social media, etc. They know they're in the wrong but are certainly not backing down now. Women MUST keep up the momentum if we're going to be heard and taken notice of. The women of Ireland are already being affected by the self-id law there. We cannot let our country sleepwalk into this.

RememberMyNames · 20/07/2018 15:46

Rufus, agree re the FWR thread ship already having sailed on the pic, but of course AIBU is notoriously much bigger and more widely read, so different readership. It was just a thought, but of course you're all right and it's gone past that point already. It's totally wrong that a profile pic was abused and anything to keep a lid on the damage done seems like a good thing, but I do see your point.

Maybe WPUK could take off or do something clever to their twitter feed to stop it showing up in their site again every time someone tags them in a tweet with it in. Don't know if that's possible though.

Tells, can you explain the dig? I don't get it.

Fienda, take your troll hunting back to FWR ffs or report to hq. Sniping at new or newish usernames is such a low and pointless thing to do. Nobody thinks it's clever and it adds nothing to th thread.

whatsthecomingoverthehill · 20/07/2018 16:01

*Genuine question. Not trying to shit stir.

Why are (OMG going to get shouted down for wrong terminology) non-trans men (i.e men) silent on this issue?
Also, are they similarly impacted by F to M trans?*

They're not silent, there are just far fewer men who are involved in the discussion mainly because it doesn't affect them to anything like the same extent. (Men aren't being told that they're wrong to not like 'lady penises', only lesbians are. Funny that.)

But there are some men who stick their head above the parapet. Graham Linehan for example is very active.

ToeToToe · 20/07/2018 16:10

WPUK are notifying that the FB profile is FAKE. This is the correct thing to do.

Trans activists have shared screenshots all over twitter - so this needs to be firmly countered.

Aurielia · 20/07/2018 17:00

RememberMyNames
There's a statement on the WPUK website that says their meetings have not been the cause of acrimony and discord.

But at the same time, there was that bomb threat, intimidation, harassment, and a threatening incident in a stairwell at another event, and they are concerned that women may not be not safe arriving and leaving their events.

∆∆∆ copied and pasted from your post on page 2.
Are you really victim blaming the WPUK and it's attendants?
Are you saying these women deserves all the abuse and threats by daring to hold a meeting?
Are the threats, bomb scares, doxxing and abused received by these women in any way an accepable way to protest.

I have no problems with peaceful protest. What has happened at these meetings was far from it.

Surely no matter which side of this arguement you fall on. What kind of person are you to condone this level of violence and abuse.
It's not protest, it's terrorism.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 20/07/2018 17:15

It's totally wrong that a profile pic was abused and anything to keep a lid on the damage done seems like a good thing

Abso-bloody-lutely

Which is why i agreed with your original point

Just such a a shame its already been shared across the whole bloody internet...i think sometimes people don't realise the damage they are doing, at both ends of the scale!

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 20/07/2018 17:16

Trans activists have shared screenshots all over twitter

And toe got there first again Smile

ToeToToe · 20/07/2018 17:17

Rufus Grin

Wine
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