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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Employer refusing parental leave, forcing me to resign then asking for over £2000 AIBU

63 replies

Butterflies14 · 18/07/2018 17:59

Hi all,
I don’t usually post here but I need some serious advise. I work in a private corporate sector, been here for nearly 2 years, in March this year my daughter started having seizures , it’s been a battle on its own getting the doctors to do the tests to find out why she’s having seizures, only at nights and once I almost lost here so the fear is so intense, I cannot sleep peacefully at night all , Doctor has not diagnosed Nocturnal epilepsy as yet because we are still awaiting consultation’s appointment but has told us to be vigilant for high risk of SUDEP.
This has changed my life and my work is very demanding, I have asked my employer to give me time off unpaid/ paternal leave for 2 months so I can concentrate on my daughter’s health, also get my sons long overdue appointment done . Spend time with them and visit my parents who live in a different county, ny manger came back saying we can’t give you time off you will have to resign . Ok I said if you want I will resign. Then they said now that you have resigned within 1 year of us paying for your course you have to pay back £2000.
I really feel helpless, I have no money and they’re the ones asking me to resign then why should I pay ? They can give me unpaid leave and get agency staff temporarily. AIBU to say I’m entitled to take parental leave?

OP posts:
LuluJakey1 · 18/07/2018 18:34

Do not resign. Parental leave is a statutory right. If they refuse and ask you to resign they are in the wrong and a tribunal would find n your favour. The fact that you hvae not been employed for 2 years is irrelevant in the case of a statutory right- they are in the wrong, have breached your contract and a tribunal will find in your favour. Withdraw your resignation, see your union rep and explain you were given no choice.

Original poster
Butterflies14 · 18/07/2018 18:37

Thank you for all the replies. I will see my GP ASAP.
There is NO HR in our company, there is no system employer has asked the employees to remain emotionless in the office. We are not even allowed to talk and it’s quite robotic to say the least.

OP posts:
Original poster
Butterflies14 · 18/07/2018 18:38

I will speak to my union hopefully tomorrow.

OP posts:
BoxsetsAndPopcorn · 18/07/2018 18:42

They can delay a request for parental leave if it doesn't suit the business.

If you resign and have an agreement re training costs it will still stand. The reason for the resignation would be your choice and not an agreement.

Can you not split it with your husband and each share some? They may be more willing if it's not eight weeks leave.

Katri0na · 18/07/2018 18:42

in the long term, I would seriously consider to look for another job, this one sounds awful and not so well paid that you must stick to it.

If they treat you that bad, don't feel bad to use all your legal options!

rjay123 · 18/07/2018 18:45

Are they offering you the chance to resign with no notice?

If so you can leave immediately and tend to your daughter.

If not, you may still have 4 weeks until you can leave (assuming 4 week notice period). You can obviously not turn up for Work, and they can in turn charge you for the cost of replacing you at short notice - which doesn’t help things.

ghostyslovesheets · 18/07/2018 18:49

awful of them to be so uncaring - I hope your union can help

I was off sick for 6 weeks with 'stress at home' when my daughter was ill - but thankfully I work for a boss who gives a shit and was very supportive :(

HermioneWeasley · 18/07/2018 18:51

I think you may have a case for disability discrimination. I think there was a case that went to the ECJ about a mum who needed adjustments because of her child’s disability, and she was found to be covered.

In any event I’d be tempted to speak to your boss and say you’ve taken advice, and you’ve effectively been unfairly constructively dismissed because of their refusal to make reasonable adjustments. They can either reinstate and work through a time off plan that works for both parties, or you’ll sue them, making sure to name every manager in the business and have a case that lasts at least a week, with lengthy cross examination.

Alibobbob · 18/07/2018 18:57

As others have said...

Don’t resign
Speak to union or ACAS preferably both
Take all personal belongings home
See your GP for support

If they are not happy let them sack you - they will be wary/worried about an employment tribunal especially if they are sub-contracted to a larger organisation - they will not want any bad publicity

If they ‘let you go’ or sack you will you have to repay the money?

ChessieFL · 18/07/2018 19:08

An employer cannot refuse parental leave. However, they can say when you can take it - you don’t have the right to insist on taking it at a certain time. So they must agree to you having it but not necessarily at the time you want it. Also, your maximum entitlement is 4 weeks per year - they can allow more but they don’t have to, and they can’t insist you take less than 4 if that’s what you want. And you have to give 21 days notice of the start date of your leave.

Therefore, your employer is within their rights to say you can’t have the leave now, as long as they have a significant business reason why. However, they should have issued a formal response to your request within 7 days explaining why they are refusing the leave now and suggesting a different start date for your leave period which can’t be more than 6 months away. It doesn’t sound like they have done this. Therefore you need to go back to them asking if there is a significant business reason why you can’t have the leave when you want, and asking when you can take the leave.

However, as long as they follow the process they are within their rights to say that you can’t take the leave for (say) another 5 months.

ChessieFL · 18/07/2018 19:09

Meant to say that’s all from the gov.uk website - google parental leave and it’s the first one that comes up

Heartbroken47 · 18/07/2018 19:11

Check your home insurance - ours had free legal cover which enabled my husband to make an unfair dismissal claim,

Tinkobell · 18/07/2018 19:18

Agree with @Lockheart, epilepsy can take a long time to stabilise under consultant care. Small doses of drugs are tried and reviewed over 6 week periods. I certainly wouldn't consider air travel to see your parents for a good while...I appreciate you're stressed and isolated but that doesn't fairly fall under the request for parental leave surely.
My friend actually found sleeping with her son on a mattress in his room I.e being dead near him, relieved her own stress and she slept ok.....I realise that's far from ideal but might be better than lying wide awake in your own room feeling frightened?

Strawberry2017 · 18/07/2018 19:22

I wouldn't usually suggest this but do you get sick pay? If so is it worth getting signed off by the doctor? X

onanothertrain · 18/07/2018 19:24

Unfortunately with less that 2 years with your employer you have few employment rights.

LoveInTokyo · 18/07/2018 19:31

I think you could have a case for constructive dismissal.

As others have said, contact ACAS and the citizens' advice bureau.

mumsastudent · 18/07/2018 19:48

or CAB = look up law society & find if there is a solicitor nearby with expertise in employment law who does free half hour advice. My dh had work issue where they tried to make him redundant when they heard he was having v. serious op he was a temp worker of 2 years - solicitor gave me rough letter to type my dh signed took it in - they had to pay him sick pay!

katiejruss · 18/07/2018 19:58

butterflies can I ask about the seizures? Off topic from what you're asking, but my daughter has occasional night seizures (which are being investigated) and I wondered what symptoms your daughter has? Are they tonic clonic ? How old is she? How often do they occur?

rollingonariver · 18/07/2018 20:06

Hi op, I'd definitely also recommend getting signed off and seeing ACAS. They're trying it on hoping you don't fight. They sound nasty, stand up for yourself.

Tistheseason17 · 18/07/2018 20:46

@ChessieFL is correct.

Put your request for parental leave in writing. They may still decline for business reasons.

Don't phone in sick, that is just morally wrong.

Employers in small businesses cannot simply cover costs like this which is why the max is 4 weeks PA.

If you resign that is your decision but not every parental leave request can be accommodated.

And, if it is contractual you pay back the £2k and you benefited from the course before leaving, why should the business lose out? They'll have to recruit again and pay for another course for someone else. They are not a money tree

This sucks, I know, but it's not your fault or the business's fault. It just horribly sad circumstances.

52FestiveRoad · 18/07/2018 21:11

OP Flowers No advice about the job but epilepsy is shit to live with. My dd has it, I understand the sleepless nights worrying about every little sound. Take the time for your family.

Original poster
Butterflies14 · 19/07/2018 07:46

Katie, she is 10. Seizures only occur at night, sometimes few in one night and sometimes 1 in few weeks it really varies but I have noticed excitement, happiness, sadness any sort of emotion can trigger it. They have not told me what type it is as they’re further invesgating it. Please PM me if you want to ask any more questions, I’m new here and don’t know how to PM

OP posts:
Tinkobell · 19/07/2018 08:15

OP - what plans did you originally have in place for childcare cover over the summer break? Have those plans changed because of the seizures?
Might you have an option to ask the employer for some flexible working whilst you're working through these issues?
I am surprised you say it's been slow getting tests done. I've a friend whose 14 YO had sudden seizures and NHS did not hang about getting multiple EEGS done to eliminate possible risk of a tumour....perhaps service varies nationwide.
It sounds like you are working under some kind of probationary period with your training etc. Without seeing what Contract you've signed it's hard to comment but you MUST surely have some statutory rights here that I'd go to citizens advice for. I don't think wrapping a trip in to see your folks should be part of your request though.

ShatnersWig · 19/07/2018 08:26

So is this a small private firm or is it a corporate? You've said both. Corporate generally means a larger entity and I've never known a corporate that didn't have someone responsible for HR in some form, if not a whole HR department.

You say you have a union, though, which again tends to relate to a larger entity than a private one. To be honest, there is no point discussing these sorts of things on MN. Every time there is a thread about anything concerning employment law all sorts of things get said and usually at least a third of them are factually incorrect.

First port of call is always your union if you have one or ACAS if you don't. You have a union so get on to them.

Original poster
Butterflies14 · 19/07/2018 09:06

Union is not in our company , I called up and joined a larger union myself when I started work here.
Sector is private like legal for example, so they have a few branches and make good money.

OP posts: