to ask why putting your DC in a school nursery is not compulsory if it puts them that much further ahead?

[Whyisitnotcompulsory]

I have heard a few times lately that some children who went to a pre-school rather than a school nursery are not as ahead with reading and phonics etc. once they start reception.

If it is so important why are pre-schools more focused on play (even if they follow the EYFS curriculum)? If I chose to not send my DC to a school nursery or even a pre-school I wouldn't exactly be handed a guide on what to teach my DC (this is not including social development of course) ready for school.

My DD will be starting a pre-school this September for a few sessions but now I feel like I should be enquiring if there are any spaces available at school nurseries left (unlikely). As I've probably missed this chance I now feel like I'm putting my DC at a disadvantage academically?

I have tried researching what in particular I should teach my DC but it's difficult and I could be wrong in this but I imagine different schools follow different methods? So I might teach her the jolly phonics for example but if the school she goes to do not follow this she might be a bit confused with the new style of learning.

I suddenly feel like I've made a mistake by not sending her to a school nursery. If it puts children that far ahead at reception why is it not compulsory?

Mine didn’t do any phonics or reading aside from his own name.

He’s not suffered for it, he’s a very good reader at age 6.

My advice? Don’t sweat it. She’ll learn at her own pace and there’s no reason to steam ahead with education at age 3 or 4.

There are no school nurseries in my area. Only private nurseries and independent pre schools. DD1 starts school in September and is doing brilliantly... she taught herself to read before she was 4 and pre school supported her with that, she has a reading diary and brings books home every week. DD2 is just 3 and has been taught all her letters/shapes/numbers there so far.
To be honest I’d never even heard that school nurseries are so desirable.

I think the only difference is a school one they're likely to be with more of the same children in reception. They follow the same EYFS guidelines.

You can view the early years curriculum online, along with lots of early years/nursery activities and 'lesson plans' if you want to. The long term benefit isn't particularly to do with learning things like phonics etc though, it's very much learning though play, working on things like finger dexterity, learning about the word around us, learning to learn, exploring

Teaching kids basics isn't hard. You do not need a guide. Just don't be fucking lazy.

Maybe I am worrying too much.

"SoyDora" wow your pre-school sounds wonderful. When you say your 4yo taught herself to read what do you mean? Did she know her letters and phonics first and then learnt to sound the letters together to make a word? I'm trying to think about how to teach my 3.5yo and have no idea where to start! Also, when did you put your 3yo into pre-school? I have been debating about whether I should pay for my nearly 2yo (will be 2 by September) to have 1 or 2 morning sessions with her sister but then wondered if 2 is too young?

There aren't enough to go around for starters. There would be outcry at the hours (I wouldn't want my 3 yo in breakfast club and after school club with ks2 kids, I want them with early years practitioners). Childminders are awesome and can provide stability (if as we have done, you use the same one from birth up to primary school).
Both mine have shone this year and last year in reception without any nursery or preschool (anecdata!) They learned to write their names by copying big kids at the minders and I showed them when they asked. They were read to several times a day, taken to parks, and did crafts. Same as any other kid. They didn't so scheme based phonics but I just followed their interests in letters. Current y1 could almost read on entering school. Current Y reception could only recognise about half of the letters and sounds. They could both read well at the end of reception.

DD1 started at 2.5 (she did 2 mornings a week initially which we paid for), then did 15 hours after she was 3. DD1 started the day after her second birthday for 2 mornings a week, she was 3 last week so will start 15 hours in September.
She already knew her letter sounds then basically just started blending them herself, and asking loads of questions! She has a great memory so if she asks what a word says once, she remembers it. So nothing like they’re taught to learn to read at school I don’t think! DD2 isn’t as interested in words/reading.

Thank you for the replies. I feel a lot better now.

AlphaBravo there's a lot more to teaching your DC than whether a parent is being fucking lazy.

SoyDora thank you.

You know that school is not compulsory? Only Education is compulsory from the first term after child's 5th birthday. So no I don't think this type of nursery should be compulsory because some parents may not want to opt into the nursery/school scene (but rather Home Educate instead). All children are different and so they learn differently too, what works in one setting for a child might not work for another child. It comes down to choice, parents choosing what they believe is best for their children and their families. There are all types of nurseries/pre-school, believe even Prince George is at a more play based out door one (I could be wrong lol). Personally I believe no matter how one is educated, parental involvement will always be key.

Very true loopylass13

But there isn't a massive long term advantage to teaching children academic stuff even earlier than the education system currently has it. And the UK already sees a lot of criticism and comparison to other countries who start formal education a few years later. (Those countries also teach pre-schoolers the alphabet and numbers just like the UK does, but somehow it's OK for them. It's not the same as our doing it. )

I do think you should relax a little, the majority of children are progressing just fine in YR either with or without that early start. It's more important to get them more able with their self-care, like managing shoes, coats, going to the loo, things like that. Honestly, even if you could teach children reading earlier, there would be no real benefit to the majority.

I wouldn't worry. We are actively going against this by sending DS to a private nursery. I'd rather he spent the time leading through play. There is a school of thought which goes that children can quote often feel pressure to learn these things before they're ready and it can actually put them at a disadvantage as it may put them off learning in general. Whereas encouraging them to learn what they want and at their own pace before school can help keep them enthusiastic about learning in general and they will soon catch up with their peers (if indeed they are behind at all)

Where have you got the idea that state nursery is better than private?

Both my dc did very well in preschool and the eldest has done well at school since. State school is 3 hours a day for many and play based.

Ds2 is about to go to school. Hes very average. He can count up to 100, does number bonds to 10, knows his letters and some phonic sounds so can sound out but not blend, writes his own name and numbers 1-9, colours inside lines, days of week and months, can manage self care (though arse wiping often insufficient !!). I think this is just what he picked up at home and preschool. His brother couldnt do some of this as well at the same age but could be trusted to wipe his bottom. Hey ho.

I didnt set out to teach them anything. Not worried about ds2 going into year R.

I think the main thing about a childcare setting is its nurturing caring and fun. They have friends and are independent. Each child is different and progresses at their own pace.

There is no advantage. A child who goes to a school nursery is likely to be pushed into formal learning nowadays much earlier than they ever would have been, but the onus is on the school to give all children equal opportunities to learn the same information and reach the same point (where reasonable) regardless of prior schooling.

Depends on the area perhaps? I was a nursery nurse/TA in a school nursery, some children came in not being able to speak, use a set of cutlery, use a toilet, sit at a table or focus on an activity for more than a minute or so. (Completely NT children) because the parent involvement had been "stick cbeebies on and give him a packet of crisps". It was in an area with huge levels of poverty and third and fourth generation of very young mums, think 'Shameless' for reference. Loved their kids but few opportunities, little money and poor education themselves. Those children certainly benefitted from preschool. It took them a year to learn the routine and expectations and settle in. As well as benefitting from the (learning through play based) education. Where we were, the objective was to get as many children into the school nursery as possible, so that nobody would be disadvantaged come September in reception.

You are worrying about if you should introduce jolly phonics and if it will interfere with her learning at a later stage due to conflicting teaching styles, i think your DD will be fine, honestly.

School nurseries and state nurseries (should) follow the same curriculum as pre-school.

There's no benefit to pushing formal learning earlier than it already is.

As someone who has worried in boh private preschools and school nurseries, I can promise you that there is absolutely no difference in what your child will be taught.

They both follow the EYFS (if you’re in the uk) and have to track and show children’s development over time. If anything, I personally think private Pre-Schools are better as they don’t have to follow specific “whole school” approaches that are inappropriate and don’t make sense for early years.

*worked in

It doesn't matter where you access the free hours, they'll all follow the EYFS. For me the big advantage of the local prèschool was lots of familiar faces when she started school, was one less thing to be daunting. Academically I don't think it makes any difference by the end of Year R.

Our choice for both DDs was a forest Kindergarten (age 3-5) to avoid them being taught. We wanted the focus to be emotional self-regulation, executive function skills and social skills.

If we could've, we'd have kept them there until 7.

My DS went to a play based nursery which suited him as he had no interest in formal learning. He barely recognised any letters when he started reception. He finishes reception in a week and can read fluently. He has always been read too (literature is my passion!) and has a house full of books. He had the interest and we didn’t want to put him off by pushing him when he wasn’t ready. He has amazed his teachers with how quickly he has progressed when he was ready in his own time. I’m hoping his writing comes on better soon, but he’s 5, plenty of time for that!!

I put my son in the schools nursery but my daughter I am going to keep in the private nursery she attends until she starts reception. My daughter is far more advanced then my son was at the same age. I think it all depends on the child. Every child has different needs.

It isn't compulsory to put children in an educational setting at any age, so of course it's not going to become compulsory for 3 and 4 year olds who are below the age of compulsory education.

That said, if you're concerned, why not make enquiries? If as you suspect there's nowhere, at least you know and your decision will be informed.

The current norm of sending kids to school nursery at 3 is quite recent, and there is lots of evidence that a play-based curriculum is actually better in the long term. If you talk to your dd, do lots of interesting stuff together in this precious pre-school year, sing songs, read books together (and maybe learn some letters), count things together, give her paints and crayons, and she also gets to spend time with other kids (and you nail some independence skills like going to the toilet and putting her coat and shoes on) she'll be well ready for school. The kids who are lag behind in their reception year are the ones who spend their 4th year of life in a buggy/ glued to a screen being more or less ignored, or in a nursery with younger kids having everything done for them.