to ask why putting your DC in a school nursery is not compulsory if it puts them that much further ahead?

[Whyisitnotcompulsory]

I have heard a few times lately that some children who went to a pre-school rather than a school nursery are not as ahead with reading and phonics etc. once they start reception.

If it is so important why are pre-schools more focused on play (even if they follow the EYFS curriculum)? If I chose to not send my DC to a school nursery or even a pre-school I wouldn't exactly be handed a guide on what to teach my DC (this is not including social development of course) ready for school.

My DD will be starting a pre-school this September for a few sessions but now I feel like I should be enquiring if there are any spaces available at school nurseries left (unlikely). As I've probably missed this chance I now feel like I'm putting my DC at a disadvantage academically?

I have tried researching what in particular I should teach my DC but it's difficult and I could be wrong in this but I imagine different schools follow different methods? So I might teach her the jolly phonics for example but if the school she goes to do not follow this she might be a bit confused with the new style of learning.

I suddenly feel like I've made a mistake by not sending her to a school nursery. If it puts children that far ahead at reception why is it not compulsory?

We used a mixture because of logistics and availability from private prep school nursery to village pre school to state primary nursery.
I’m not convinced it made a huge difference to outcomes although the ones at prep school nursery had a much more structured programme learning French, ballet, reading and writing. Our eldest loved it and remains the most studious and conformist. Our son had a village play group feeding animals, splashing in puddles, building dens and gardening and is the least enamoured of academia. He still prefers active, outside, relaxed environments.
Academically I’m not convinced it makes much difference but I do wonder if it helps form aspirations and attitudes. Mine were only ever there a couple of days a week.

Where did you read that children gain specifically from being in a school nursery? When I was at uni (admittedly a few years ago) the consensus was that 'high quality early years education' benefited 3 year olds but it didn't have to be in a school nursery.

IIRC there was a strong relationship between staff qualifications and children's outcomes but increasingly private nurseries have level 6 graduate practitioners leading the pre-school room.

Oh sorry just saw you heard it not read it...I thought I'd missed an interesting piece of research/news. :)

I'm a bit baffled. Surely a 'Pre School' and a Nursery Class within a school are the same thing. Is there a difference? I mean 'pre school' from the age of 3. Under 3 surely it's 'daycare' even though the place they are in is called a Nursery. 3-5 year old education is the Early Years Foundation Stage and would follow the same curriculum whether it's in a place called a Pre School, Nursery School, Playgroup or Nursery Class. Some schools even call the 3 - 5 year old classes 'Foundation Classes' or F1 and F2 or even the 'Early Years Class'. But it's all the same EYFS curriculum - is it not?

The pre school my children go to isn’t attached to a school in any way, it’s an entirely independent building and organisation. By school nursery I’m assuming the OP means that it is within the primary school and attached to it. Our primary schools in this area all start at reception with no nursery/pre school provision for younger children.

book - and under 3s follow the eyfs too. The main difference with a state nursery class will be the qualified teacher.

But yes you’re right, it’s the same EYFS curriculum.

It doesn't push them massively ahead

Compulsory school nursery would be a nightmare for lots of working parents. Ours only offers 5 mornings or 5 afternoons not full-time 8-6 childcare.
I think it completely depends on the school And the child. Dd1's school did mostly play based learning until summer term of year 1. Even now going into yr3 they will be using the outside as an extension of classroom according to new teacher.
She didn't know any phonics when she started and is reading at yr4 level now.

We don't have school nurseries where we live. It must be an easier transition from nursery to school but I can't see any other advantages. My youngest is at a sn preschool which has been great for him but he is the only one going to his school from his preschool. The teacher told me that this year the 28 children in his class have come from 11 different preschools.

Dd1 went to a nursery but learnt to blend cvc words at home before 3.5yo. Learnt the sounds from me and alphablocks then played cbeebies games where you write the words. Also apps like jolly phonics and hairy phonics.
No sight reading or exception words.
Even so school started from the beginning with letter sounds anyway.
Dd2 exactly 3yo doesnt know any sounds yet starts nursery in sept.
I will still teach her to blend before school as dd1 has taken off very quickly. But despite a choice between nursery and school preschool we went nursery because it had better outside area.
Almost dd1 whole class are reading pretty well now (end yr 1). Having started as non readers. We are however already reading Charlie and the chocolate factory etc at just over 6yo. I think though the bigger difference can be made by parents in yr r by reading daily. My strategy was then using reading chest from feb so we could read ahead of the books from school (only 2 per week). Then reading real book band books from the library. I also used the songbirds phonics books too.
Being stuck on the books from school (which is determined by a TA or teacher which may rarely read with your child) is likely to be different to what they may be capable of.
The range (in children who couldnt read anything before school) at end of year 1 is in excess of lime band to orange.

Children learn all the time, beginning before birth! You can do a lot with them at home.

The main difference between a school class and a preschool or nursery is likely to be ratios. If you have a qualified teacher you can have 1:13 I believe rather than 1:8 for a Level 3 staff member. Otherwise it doesn't make that much difference as it doesn't guarantee you entry to the school anyway. Personally my kids have got on very well at local preschools, there is only one school nursery class within driving distance as it isn't really a thing around here. I'd rather have more adult attention and less formal learning.

A school nursery class should also be following a play based curriculum. I have known a private pre-school that handed out worksheets and gave home work.

A school nursery will have a qualified teacher, the children will go up to reception together, some schemes like phonics will be in line with the rest of the school and children will become familiar with the layout of the school and get to know other teachers. On the down side the hours aren't much help to working parents. I was a nursery teacher but fwiw my daughter went to a full time day nursery as I needed the hours. It's your choice.

My DS2 is coming to the end of several years at a surestart daycare before starting reception in September. He can recognise letters and knows the sounds they make but can't read. Friends with children at the school nursery but whose older children went to the same nursery as mine (it only opened a couple of years ago and is term time only so no good for us) have told me that their children are doing a lot more phonics etc, and the setting is much more like school. I'm very happy to have kept my son at a more laid back setting where they do lots more messy and active play than it sounds like they do at the school nursery. I think he will pick up reading very fast come the autumn but he has had years of great outside creative play, which is way more important than formal phonics etc at this age. Without getting too gender stereotypical, the school nursery has only female staff and apparently there is lots of sitting down and colouring and craft activities, which suits many of the girls better than the boys. Our nursery has several male staff and is very big on risk-taking play and being active, which suits many boys better.

There's no right and wrong really - all nurseries have to follow the EYFS. You just need to find a setting which suits your child and which you like - which it sounds like you have. There are many years of formal education ahead so there's no rush!

Personally I wouldn't push phonics etc early unless they want to do it. My 4 year old can recognise about half the letters and say some letter sounds, recognise numbers including a few 2 digit numbers, and he knows a fair bit of random science etc as well. He can legibly write his own name although he doesn't form his letters correctly. Most importantly he learns like a sponge and will ask if he doesn't understand a word or idea. He is quite independent and self confident and will happily chat to any adult (and be easily understood) or play with any child. He is ready for school and will do well.

Agree with others about do not stress! Early exposure doesn't necessarily mean better progress in learning. Social skills and self care are so important but to support your pre school child academically I suggest the following:

Sing! Lots of nursery rhymes. Lots of repeated patterns.
Talk! Don't dumb down your language too much. Expose her to new words.
Read her stories. Try to promote a love of books.
Discuss characters and story plots.
Role play! Draw upon life experiences and books.
Count with her while you're out and about. Can she give 1 more 1 less.
Mark making. Use chalk outside.
Copy letters. Use shaving foam. In sand/sugar on a tray.
Promote correct pencil grip using the tripod hold (advanced skill)
Promote initial sounds e.g. what can you hear at the start of superman. (Recommend Mr thorn on YouTube if you aren't familiar with sounds taught).

I'm sure you do lots of these but might help someone. I feel strongly that young children should not be sat down in a formal learning environment at home or at school. I'd like formal learning to start at 7.

www.janetlansbury.com/2010/11/4-reasons-to-ditch-academic-preschools/

Progress depends on what you measure.

My 5 yr old was a tad later on scissor skills and phonics for example but showed social maturity, ability to focus and debate abstract concepts, developed a fantastic vocabulary and has lots of friends.

Basically an excellent place to begin formal learning from, very much ready to learn.

She’d though of missed reception goals, just like her older siblings who later on shine academically.

I sent my daughter to a forest pre-school from just turned 3, until she was almost 5. I put her in for the last half a term of Reception year, then she started Year 1 as normal.

I did a lot of reading and research. The research at the time showed that while children who don't go to heavily academic pre-schools may not be as advanced in the classroom in Years 1 & 2, they catch up within a couple of years, and then there is no difference to their education.

My daughter learnt a lot of self confidence, manual dexterity, reasoning, and was physically way ahead of her school educated peers. As a secondary school child, she is now heavily involved in a sport, which she is doing national competitions in - I'm sure that without the forest school, she would not be where she is now - it gave her an amazing grounding.

Since middle of junior school onwards, she is either meeting or exceeding expectation on her school reports. So no academic issues.

I think you do what is right for your child. For mine, forest pre-school was perfect - I hated to think of her cooped up indoors - she had the most wonderful time outdoors most of the day, walking across fields, building dens, growing things, making mud slides, jumping in puddles - it was idyllic. But it was right for her - maybe not right for others. I did face a lot of judgement over my decision not to send her to school for all of year R, but I did what I believed was right - and looking back, I'm perfectly happy with that decision.

badmoodbetty has it spot on.

There are reports btw in the study. Basically those ‘ahead’ are not so if you remove the most deprived children from the statistics, basically nursery obviously benefits those with very poor home environments and stress in the house but not so everyone else. Also if you assess those children by the end of year 1 they have lost their head start and return, sadly, to being lower achievers overall as a group.

Many consider the study flawed, before you even unpick what was measured

I kept mine at private nursery because school nursery is was only 3 hours a day and completely undoable with our working hours.

My dds are now in year 2 and 3 and both achieving above expected levels .

Was it to with what nursery they went too ?, I doubt it, we just did what we had to at the time .

Private nursery has qualified teachers too but I’m not sure if the ratio is 1:13 because of it. DC2 nursery has 2 or 3 qualified teachers but I didn’t pick it because of it. I am not sure what exact benefits you get from going to a school nursery. Our area doesn’t have them and all children starts at reception. Tbh I was not impressed with reception year pastoral care compared to nursery despite both are EYFS. I think it has to do with staff ratio. Basically DC1 was struggling with toileting in year R and at nursery her key worker would remind her to go to the toilet regularly. The TA was quite nasty about it and once she was left in tights with poo all over it. There was no way the TA couldn’t smell it.

If that was the care you get at a school setting, there is no way I will send a 3 year old there. DC1 sorted herself out about half a year into year R, coincidentally around turning 5. It’s probably an age thing.

Some parents are not forced as it were, but certainly 'strongly encouraged' to put their children in preschool if they are subject to certain levels of intervention, if certain additional needs have been identified or if their home situation isn't ideal. Funding can be given for this for children from the term after they turn two to help families to access the benefits of Early Years education if there are concerns that they might otherwise struggle to make the transition to primary.