Ex doesn't want to pay CMS wants to pay half of everything

[namechangedfor]

What are people's views on this.

Ex is self employed. Has freely admitted he pays himself the minimum to avoid tax and so that the maint payments for our child are in the region he wants. Freely admits his accountant does his books this way.

He does not want to pay Cms. He does pay but the minimum based on his 'wage' not on his actual income.

He wants me to declare what I spend on rent, utilities and food so he can decide what Percentage of these to pay. He wants me to disclose and provide evidence of what I spend on our child's clothes, activities, leisure, school trips etc and he will pay half.

I am not willing to do this.

I want a set amount each month so I can budget. I don't really care what that amount is but I want it done through the cms as I don't trust him.

Does anyone think IABU

Year sorry

As far as I am aware about cms
You could have an email from him saying
“ I
have hidden 5 million to avoid CMS payments so fuck you amd fuck them and btw, it’s in this bank account under my name still”
And they would still do SFA

I think you need to get legal advice. If you can't afford it, Google for your local Law Centre, they give advice to people who cant afford a solicitor.

blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/self-employed-status-child-maintenance-evasion/

You need to ask them to look into the dividends, its called a variation of earnings, if you have solid evidence send it to them (i sent bank statements). You can also ask them to escalate it to their in house fraud investigation team, but its not quick fix. The fraud investigation team opened my case in November, still heard nothing. Can apparently take 9 months!!
Personally i would take the minimum that he is paying through cms and have an agreement regarding the rest (with out sending him evidence of your spending) I would just ask for a bull point figure and then save that money for if or when he decided he doesn't want to pay the extra. At that point i would take it further with cms, but like iv said their rubbish!

@UpstartCrow

Thank you I've read this previously. I name changed for a thread a few
Months ago asking for some advice and someone sent me this link. It may even have been you!

I did request for a variation to be applied to the case.

They have assured me if he takes dividends then it will flag up in the next tax year.

I'm not banking on it after reading some of the stories on here about self employed people and tax/cms avoidance.

My dh pays maintenance through CMS and they use the amount on his tax return. Would that include dividends?

YADNBU no wonder he is your ex, you did well to get rid of him . It seems to me he wants to know the ins and outs of your lifestyle for whatever reason, continued control maybe . To hell with him. Go through the CMS and let them decide .Good luck OP.

LizB62A he carnt have been declaring them to hmrc? Or was he withdrawing them and then putting them back in the business? either way if they go through hmrc the cms are able to trace them, they just have to do things differently than if someone is employed.
I hate the fact that the none resident parent can almost decide how much they want to earn, eg go part time. Then cms just take a % of this money, it leaves them none accountable when the resident parent is forking out even more!!

Definitely go through the CMS, take back control. If he runs an Ltd business just make sure you stress to them you want them to take his dividends in to account also, rather than just the minimum he pays himself. Try and get hold of his business accounts going back the last few years, you can obtain copies of these for a few pounds from Companies House if you do a search.

My friend had a situation like this and it was a nightmare. He scoured every receipt (and if she lost a receipt she was fucked) and would ask "Why does she need two skirts? What happened to the others she has?" And if my friend had bought something for herself and it was on the same receipt, he'd say, "Oh so you can afford to buy yourself something to wear, so you can just pay for those skirts yourself."

I'd do anything to avoid that.

We have the business accounts.

Details of his accountant also.

Blankscreen
I dont think so, you have to specifically ask for them to check for dividends using a variation of earning form (or something similar) they only found it when i flagged it up and also sent proof.

LizB62A, you can discover how much he is paying himself in dividends if you get copies of his full company accounts. Go online to Companies House he will need to file them there every year.
I found after chasing them up CMS were quite cooperative chasing my ex up regarding the cm payments and forcing him to divulge his dividends. No one could have been a slippier fish and I have been to court over maintenance 7 times with him. CMS even eventually got him to pay back every penny he owed in arrears also. Just keep chasing them up.

Then look up what he is paying himself in dividends, does he pay himself monthly etc? Can you get hold of his business bank accounts as that would prove very interesting. My ex was spending thousands on socialising and putting it through the business, funding his social life through the business.

Blankscreen you are correct, I forgot that is actually what I asked for ' attachment ' of earnings.

Can he just not declare the dividends?

What happens then?

If he doesnt declare any dividends he can't pay himself anything from the company bank account. Unless he does it as a directors loan, which has been closed as a loophole for tax and attracts high interest for tax.
He can pay a massive amount into a pension. But again that gives him nothing to love on now.

Oh unless he can create masses of expenses but that usually attracts hmrc attention.

Get the attachments of earnings form and go from there.

Expenses expenses
Small dividend. Directors loan. He could end up owing the company.
But mainly expenses. And, if he’s in a cash business, then he can just take lots of cash and live off that, everything else will just be water off a ducks back to him

My father is self employed , the amount you can get away with is crazy

You could basically, aside from the basics, make almost anything expenses.

I do a slightly different version of this. I detail everything I spend on dc, including water & electricity bills and send my ex the 50% bill each month BUT two things are different.
I don’t prove what I spend and I am careful to keep the amount just below what ex would have to pay me if we went the CMS route. This allows him to maintain face and convince himself he “won” but it also means I decide schooling and other stuff. He knows if he messes me around I can take him to the CMS at any time.
My solicitor said I should do whatever worked best for me, and given ex’s personality, this is it. We’be managed 6 years without incident.

Jay55 My ex does this too, pays a large amount into his pension per month about £300 from what i can remember. How does this effect child maintenance? is his annual wage considered after he has paid his pension or before?

He wouldn't pay 50% of my utility bills lol.
He mindset is that I'd have to pay them anyway.

What he doesn't grasp is that it's not about where we live or what I buy it's about providing for his child. Based on a realistic model ie the cms.

If he is declaring minimum earnings as self employed to HMRC- CMS will use this figure if it is low what he offers you privately might be more. If as other posts have said a variation applies then CMS could be more.
In the meantime I think I would tell him you spend X amount on childrens activities if he really wants to know the cost of each activity tell him to find it out himself.
Tell him you allocate X amount per month for clothes etc. You may or may not spend it every month. You buy as and when items are needed. I save an amount each month but don't always spend it - I tend to have a big shop at the change of seasons and pick up a few bits as and when. In still at the stage of getting feet measured so buy new shoes, trainers, summer sandals etc as and when required. I also try and get some bits in the sales.
Tell him about anything extra you pay for DC, such as savings, phone (If applicable). Just let him see how much raising a child actually costs and let him make you an offer. Even If it's pathetic amount - at the minùte CMS might not be much more. But he can see what you contribute and any half decent human would offer the most they could.
He doesnt need to know anything about your rent / mortgage or utility bills etc as you would have some type of these costs even if you didn't have DC.