**Trigger Warning** Title edited by MNHQ To want to know details of this person's crime

[AnonymousJuly2018]

I'm a regular MN user, but have set up a new account for the obvious reason of not wanting to be outed. This is a long message, and I probably won't post again after I've posted. I can't speak to anyone in real life because I don't want to let the information out and be able to hurt X's (adult) children or the rest of the family.

A close family member (X) died earlier this year. I have just discovered that, prior to X's death, they were under investigation for being in possession of indecent images of children. I have no more information other than this, and that it sounds like the images were from the internet, rather than of children X knew.

X did not deny it during the investigation, X's spouse (Y) knew about it (and from the sound of it had done for years), and says that X was seeking help to stop this 'addiction'. Y was the one who told me about it, and I have seen police papers which confirm that laptops etc were seized.

I am due to have a baby soon. I was pregnant before X's death.

Before this information came out, I would never have thought twice about having X, or Y, around my baby. I would very happily have had them babysit, including overnight. The thought of Y looking after my baby now makes me feel physically sick, as although Y was not the one in possession of the images, it doesn't sound as if they did anything to safeguard the children in them - even if they were images from the internet, Y should have done something. I also feel that they should have told us about this, as they knew we were having a baby, and would want them to look after him or her from time to time.

I feel so conflicted. Y is grieving, and I love Y a great deal, and don't want to stop contact. But I don't feel as if I can trust them any more.

I want to know more about X's crime - length of time it went on, the types of images X was in possession of, the ages of the children involved, how long Y knew about it, what Y had done to try and stop it, how Y could stay with X throughout all of this, when they were planning to tell us about this (they would have had to eventually, given that it was due to go Crown Court), why if X was truly trying to seek help they didn't tell us before.

I don't know if this will help, but I feel like I need to have an honest conversation with Y to try and regain some of the trust which has been lost. And how to I explain to Y that I'm not comfortable leaving my child alone with them without Y thinking it's just to punish them? How do I reconcile my anger towards X and Y with my wish not to stop contact with Y? How on earth can I protect my child in future, if this has come as such a shock - how can I maintain contact with Y and be happy that I am protecting my child? How can I pretend to the outside world that I am grieving X's death when all I feel is disgust, anger and betrayal?

I feel completely messed up. Any practical advice would be greatly appreciated. Please be kind.

A mate of mine did Digital Forensics at uni and he said that even if someone has indecent images it doesn't mean they are guilty. They can accidentally download onto your computer from a pop up or website. Your post was a little confusing, can you talk to the person who had the indecent images? If you can just have a long conversation with them

The guy with the images is dead. What more do you need to know.

He is dead and therefore not a threat. Draw a line. Any detail would only hurt everybody. Don't take it out on Y

He was a sick individual for sure, and it doesn't matter what age the children were as underage is underage...but...he's dead and can't ever hurt or perv over your child. Hooray!
As for Y, if you really want to keep her in your life just keep her at a distance and don't allow her around your child unsupervised.

Are they your Parents, PIL, or Bro/Sis in law?

If he was not convicted then will be evidence to suggest a crime but without a conviction there is not definitive proof.

You already know that ‘Y’ was aware that ‘x’ liked to look at children being sexually abused and did not inform the police. I am not sure what else you need to know.

You can contact the police and under either Claire/Sarah’s law I can’t rember which one it is asked them if they think ‘y’ is a threat to your child.

I could not maintain a relationship with ‘y’ knowing she did nothing to stop children being sexual abused.

heatwave2018 OP said the person is now dead. Also, they didn't deny having the photos during investigation and person Y referred to it as an addiction. So not likely an accident.

OP, sorry you're having to go through this. I don't know quite how I'd deal with it, it sounds like you are very closely related to X and Y. I would tell Y the truth, that even though X is dead I could not forgive them and I couldn't trust Y to safeguard them against any person they may meet in the future with similar behaviour. One thing I've learnt as a parent is that you have to put your child's safety ahead of hurting other people's feelings, even when that person is close family and guilt trips you.

Put your child first. Maybe still have a relationship with X but never leave your child with them.

Sorry Y (not X)

OP I'm so sorry you are going through this. I would also be angry with Y and I would need to talk to her. I would need to be able to trust that she would safeguard my child and the answer to that at the moment is no- she was complicit in the abuse of children, not someone I would trust with my child.

@heatwave2018 it’s possible but very unlikely.

X is dead, no longer a threat and there's no conviction to tell you about. Leave that where is it and turn your attention to Y.

Y is still alive, and while they may not be a direct threat their clearly skewed view of X's behaviour is. It suggests that Y would possibly risk bring another person like X in to your life. You need to concentrate on safeguarding your child and that means making decisions about how much of a relationship Y can have with them. Only you can decide that based on all the things you know about Y. Don't be sidetracked by X, you can't change it and it's no longer an issue.

Personally I wouldn't want to know the type of images and how long X had been doing it unless you know you can handle it. Crimes against children are terrible and it's the fact that kids can't defend themselves that makes me sad. By all means, have a conversation about the fact that you find it hard to reconcile the person you knew and the person who did this terrible thing. The fact that it was going to court is probably an indication that the police had enough to prosecute. Any extra detail probably won't help you regain trust in Y knowing she knew what was going on.

If it was me I would carry on having a relationship with Y as it sounds like it's a close family member but I would avoid having her looking after your child when you're not present. If she offers just say thanks but A has already said he/she would be looking after the baby.
I wish you all the best OP. That's a pretty tough situation you're in.

What is your relationship with Y and why did they tell you?

X's spouse (Y) knew about it (and from the sound of it had done for years), and says that X was seeking help to stop this 'addiction'.

^^ that's your answer, Y was aware X was undergoing counselling, therefore Y knew X was talking steps to address the issue

Without putting too fine a point on it - and everyone else will pile in with opinions - I've been on enough safeguarding courses to know it is very rare for someone to take the step from looking (ie down loading) to touching . It doesn't make it any less worse of course.

I also sit in enough safeguarding meetings to know medical professionals (and social workers) can be very blasé about this and treat it like an illness - and I'm not going to argue because I don't have a medical degree and Im not qualified to have an opinion on root cause.

The thought of Y looking after my baby now makes me feel physically sick, as although Y was not the one in possession of the images, it doesn't sound as if they did anything to safeguard the children in them even if they were from the internet*

What do you reasonably think Y could have done if X was already in a counselling programme?

I am assuming you are in a part of the UK. Laws will be different overseas, Germany for example has a rehabilitation programme where paedophiles can self declare and get treatment.

Why do you think Y presents a danger to you child? You say you cant trust them. What do you think Y will do to your child?

You have a duty of care to your children, not Y. Y is an adult. They have minimised the behaviour and the harm, and as other pp have said may introduce another partner later on.

Warn your kids when they are old enough that Y and any new partner aer not trusted adults.

Note that the sex of the people concerned isn't mentioned.

Y is old enough to know that X's addiction was feeding a demand for child pornography. I could not be friends with someone who knew about this and stayed with their husband.

@heatwave2018 but your friend studying Digital Forensics should also have told you that it's relatively easy to distinguish between photos deliberately stored on a computer and popup images.

You should ring social services, and speak to them. Say you are pregnant, you are aware of the general nature of X's crimes, and Y's collusion. You are, perfectly naturally, concerned about any risk Y may pose to your expected child. Given the close relationship, and expectations that Y would have significant contact with (sole care of?) your child, you would like information to enable you to make an informed decision.

Social services will then speak to the police. They will then get back to you with their risk assessment. They may or may not give you exact details, it's impossible to know from the information you have given. However, you need a risk assessment on Y. She knew, so she colluded. She was prepared to put her relationship with X (your dad?) above the horrific suffering of children. The police and social services will give you an objective opinion on the level of risk she poses to your child. You can then decide whether you can put aside what she did (which is a separate issue).

Incidentally, you are under no obligation, whatsoever, to keep X's dirty secret. If you're not upset that he's dead, then don't pretend to be. If anyone asks why, tell them what you want to tell them. Don't collude. Don't lie. Don't cover for the bastard.

DO NOT try and find out more. It could seriously impact your mental health. As for Y, you're never going to be comfortable with her having sole charge of your ds, don't try and force it, there's no need. And if she moans , them's the breaks for standing by him. Don't feel guilty for a moment.

Without putting too fine a point on it - and everyone else will pile in with opinions - I've been on enough safeguarding courses to know it is very rare for someone to take the step from looking (ie down loading) to touching . It doesn't make it any less worse of course.

I'm a CP social worker, and this is rubbish. One of the prime uses of child porn is grooming.

YABU to expect details of the case beyond what’s available to the public at this time. Even though X is dead that doesn’t change the fact that they weren’t convicted of any crime, and have a right to privacy regarding their criminal investigation. Others may disagree, but even from a selfish perspective what could you gain?

Y saw it as an illness and was supporting X while they sought help for what they viewed as an addiction. If they’d have simply left that wouldn’t have stopped the activity, or safeguarded anyone. In fact it’d be more likely for Y to offend further knowing they had nothing to lose and nobody around to see.

You’re being a bit premature stressing that they didn’t tell you, you’re pregnant and the baby isn’t here yet. There’s every chance that if X was alive when you gave birth they’d either tell you what was going on or just refrain from asking to/agreeing to babysit. You’re judging them for not telling you before the end of the time period when they might have done.

If you don’t feel safe having Y around your child that’s entirely up to you but I can’t see what they did wrong. Sounds like they tried to be a supportive spouse while X got treatment, which isn’t the same as enabling or facilitating what X was doing.

And how to I explain to Y that I'm not comfortable leaving my child alone with them without Y thinking it's just to punish them? How do I reconcile my anger towards X and Y with my wish not to stop contact with Y?

You can’t control whether Y thinks it’s punishment or not.

Your anger will likely dissipate in time, it’s a recent shock. You’re probably grieving X but confused as you now feel badly towards them, it’s a difficult time for you. There’s no need to rush to reconcile anything. I assume Y will understand you’re taking time to process this. Just see how things go, you don’t actually have to decide or do anything anytime soon do you? Eventually when baby is old enough to be left with someone else alone you can see how you feel re Y, but right now you sound like you’re scrambling to try and ‘do’: find stuff out, decide on babysitting boundaries, force yourself to either reconcile yourself to one thing or another, when there’s no need.

As for the shock, there are people who abuse children in one way or another all around us. It’s frightening, I know. But you mustn’t blow it out of proportion and start seeing the bogeyman round each corner. It’ll drive you mad.

I agree that Y knew that X's addiction was a feeding a demand for images of child abuse (not child 'pornography' - children can't consent).
They chose not to leave them.
I would not have this person near my child as their boundaries are not clear enough imo.

@LyndseyKola
You can't see what person Y did wrong?!? Wow.

OP, I would also be wary of this "counselling" you've been told X was having. There are very few approved counselling services for this, and they're usually only available through offender management programmes. If he had no previous convictions, I don't know who he's been getting counselling from. Any ordinary counsellor would be obliged to report his behaviour, as he would have been discussing the fact that he was committing sexual offences against children.

Like any sensible parent, I’d never knowingly allow a pedophile anywhere near my children or any child.

Second to that, I’d never allow the partner of a pedophile who turned a blind eye to such abuse anywhere near any child either.

I may be wrong, but a spouse ignoring abuse is as bad as the abuser or the pervert viewing photos . There is no ‘better levels of peodophilia’