To not disagree that IVF should be further restricted to save money

[Banana8080]

NHS England is considering reducing IVF offer guidelines, some areas offer 3 cycles (the current recommendation), while others offer none.

Current age limit is 40 years, strict BMI and trying to conceive for at least two years.

While infertility can be devastating, I myself have just had treatment (private) followed by a mc, it’s not critical/life saving. I’m sad but I left it late (37) even though I knew the risks.

Am I being unreasonable to say it’s ok for NHS to review guidelines, maybe reduce upper age to 35, one cycle etc. And this money goes to critical care - cancer, more nurses etc etc

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jun/29/ivf-cycles-restricted-england-nhs-advisers-ignored

boxsets what makes you think that infertility is not a symptom of illness /disease?

Clionba - @Mrsfw I think ivf recipients are picked on because some people conceive very easily and have absolutely no idea what others go through. Read the thread about the cost of periods. Dozens saying periods only cost & 1.26 a month, unable to understand some women are different. Real lack of empathy.

I just wanted to repeat this post. I was thinking the same thing right down to the comparison with the period thread.

People tend to kick down and out at things they don't have experience of. ''The NHS is in trouble. What can we cut that WE wouldn't miss. That we are unfamiliar with? .... hmm I.V.F ...''

People are comfortable putting fertility on the bottom of the pile because it's largely invisible. It's kept private very often. The pain of it is hidden. It's not got the same public sympathy level of many more visible and talked about illnesses. Many couples you know well could be undergoing treatment and you wouldn't know.

I have no opinion on the rights and wrongs of cutting or maintaining IVF on the NHS - but it's administrative procedures are truly archaic. The procurement process is akin to trying to build a replica of the titanic by using discarded tins of baked beans.

I believe the NHS should be for illness, accident etc. I don't believe it should pay for IVF, gender change or unnecessary plastic surgery. Some is very necessary I realise. It cannot carry on funding everything it will collapse and then we will have nothing. I do think though it could raise money by offering these services as a sort of private job to raise money for the NHS. So IVF available for half the cost of private or stomach stapling for a reasonable fee. Money goes straight to the trust. It should be to the point where if you need an operation you get it as quickly as possible not waiting months and months. And the social care sector needs sorting to take the bed blockers to ease that area of strain. Most middle management is already cut to the bone

Perhaps the NHS should stop treating the third or fourth children of people? After all, those are ‘wants’ rather than necessities - in an overpopulated world. People made a lifestyle choice to have more children and put more stress on the resources of the state and NHS.

First they came for IVF, and I did not speak out, because I was fertile...Well done once more to the government for distracting and dividing when we should be united in demanding a properly funded health care system.

@Laiste absolutely. "What makes no difference to me personally if it was cut? They can always adopt" attitude.

YABU. The NHS shouldn't offer IVF at all. There are lots of people dying unnecessarily because there isn't enough money to go around. State gives healthcare should be for medical necessity. If someone wants IVF they should pay for it

If someone wants not to die they should pay for it.

If someone wants IVF they should pay for it

So people who have 3/4/5 children naturally should pay for some of them?

I absolutely think IVF should be funded and there shouldn't be a postcode lottery as I can only imagine that must make a difficult situation all the more galling.

To people saying the money should be saved for illnesses and accidents, how is infertility not an illness? If you're going to start making judgements about what 'warrants' treating then do you start quizzing people who have had accidents?

• DIY accident? What made you think you were qualified to carry out that task?
• sporting accident?
• accident whilst drunk? or high?

Should they start billing those people after all they contributed to their accident?

Instead of racing to the bottom we should be demanding better from our government. Cutting the pointless management structures that cost. Under the Tories we have seen so much go. Libraries being threatened, hospitals under pressure and schools cut to the bone. The NHS is for all, no one should be playing God and deciding what is worthwhile and what isn't.

I think changes to IVF funding need to be done.

My cousin has had just had IVF- she has one child, her husband has one child - but they don’t have one together but they do have a child each from previous - yet they are getting 3 funded rounds.

A close friend - she has no D.C., her DH has one child - she’s been refused IVF due to her DH having a child, apparently she should be happy being a Step Mum.

It’s bollocks and unfair.

I personally don't think IVF should be funded on the NHS. It's very, very unfortunate that people can't conceive but the NHS is supposed to preserve live not create more.
And I'm probably going to be flamed for this...but...it's also unfortunate that same sex couples can't conceive but the reason why is obvious. The couples themselves may have perfectly working reproductive systems, they are just attracted to people with reproductive organs that aren't going to be of any help in that situation.

I think non essential services (incl IVF, sex change, cosmetic surgeries) should be available on a 0% payment plan starting from say, £15-£20 a month.
I don't think it should be free tbh.

What about treating erectile dysfunction on the NHS? Life threatening? Essential?

The couples themselves may have perfectly working reproductive systems, they are just attracted to people with reproductive organs that aren't going to be of any help in that situation.

I agree with this, unless I’ve really misunderstood the situation.

What is the postcode lottery? Is it so that people in wealthier areas can’t have IVF? Because that would be bullshit.

What is the postcode lottery? Is it so that people in wealthier areas can’t have IVF?

Different care trusts have different criteria for IVF. In one area you might access IVF if you have children, in another you might not. In one area you might get three goes regardless of circumstance, in another you get one.

Completely agree, polar. Very well put.

It’s all a massive trick of misdirection. Last time I was in hospital the nurses were telling the insane price charged for the surgical gloves they have to use, all part of an NHS trust deal to line the pockets of the rich.

JacquesHammer

Ah ok thanks for explaining - sounds quite weird 🤔

I was lucky enough to conceive naturally and my daughter is my world. I'm more than happy to pay my taxes and have them go towards women who haven't been as lucky as me.

I agree it's important to put as much money in as possible OP but it's important to help women become mothers if it's all they want in life.

I say keep it as it is and offer plenty of advice re: lifestyle (diet/exercise etc) but it's a shame it's a bit of a postcode lottery in respect of the amount of rounds of IVF offered. It should be the same for everyone regardless of NHS Trust.

Infertility is a disease. It should not be cut so all. You have know idea the horrific effects infertility causes people.

Should we start cutting out services to help fat people and smokers too because that’s a lifestyle choice right? You’re mad, the whole point of the NHS is to help everyone with any health issue.

I agree that people attack IVF as something that they know will never effect them I suppose.

Generally I actually think there needs to be some sort of pay element to the NHS as a whole, I now receive free perscriptions for myself for an entire year just due to the fact that I recently gave birth. Thats fucking mental.

@NoNo maybe the NHS should stop services for fat people or smokers.

@Banana8080

Difference is that cancer kills, infertility doesn’t.

There are lots of illnesses that don’t cause death, shall we not bother treating them either?

I’m sick of theses posts on here. I will need IVF due to my husbands low sperm count and motility. I have a 2% change of conceiving naturally. I have not left it late. We have been trying to conceive since I was 27 I am now 30. I know there is a medical problem as to why we can’t conceive. Why do I not deserve help? I pay my national insurance as does my husband. We have done absolutely everything ‘right’ we are both very fit and healthy we don’t smoke hardly drink etc so why should we not have help with a medical condition? Money is being spent on cancer treatment for those that have smoked 40 fags a day for years dispose warnings or liver treatment for those who have drunk themselves into oblivion or treatment for drug addicts. All medical issues but through CHOICE. Perhaps the NHS can save money there?! We did not choose to be infertile. Threads like this are goady and stupid I’ve been sucked into it as it’s so emotive.