Dog owners: how is this our fault?

[mugOfCoffee]

We live opposite a family that has a very aggressive border collie. It spends most of its life as a working sheepdog elsewhere, but when it's in town they let it roam unchecked.

It comes into our yard (jumps the fence) and bails us up, barking and snarling, ears and tail down, a hand's length from 19mo DS in the pram.

Today it happened for the fourth time in the past year (numerous other times it's been in our yard, pooing on the lawn). I said to the neighbour "we could really do without this. It's not on having your dog barking at our baby in the pram" and she responded "well sorr-eee, you stupid f*ing bitch".

I phoned the council. Ranger talked to neighbour, who said it is our fault. Ranger has therefore advised we talk it through with our lovely neighbours. Who incidentally happen to be pillars of the local community and members of a particular political party.

How is this our fault? What have we done that this dog is responding reasonably to us being in oyr own yard???

get some sheep, then next time dog does this, shoot it for worrying them

I would contact the Police immediately - the ranger and neighbours are refusing to address a threat to the life of your child. End of. I would escalate this massively.

boot in the hole bucket of water always on standby. but really, boot in the hole

I wouldn't scream or use a water pistol as the dog could take fright and bite - you can't be sure it would run away.

If you are in the UK this is illegal: www.gov.uk/control-dog-public - the dog is on your property and out of control, so dial 999 next time. If the neighbour is so influential you need to gather evidence - keep notes of everything that happens, dates, times and descriptions of all incidents plus any calls/letters/complaints/contact with the neighbour and, if you can afford it, install cctv.

And complain to the council - how can can it be your fault that someone else's aggressive dog is allowed to roam free? The owner is responsible for keeping control of their dog - they should be the ones putting up high fences and keeping it on a lead outside their property if they can't control it. Nobody is above the law, so if the council won't deal with it, kick up a fuss elsewhere - police, local paper, MP, RSPCA.

OP as you’re talking about the ranger and a kelpie cross I’m assuming you’re in Australia.

You need to contact the local council and report it to your local councillor and the police. The ranger should have dealt with this and isn’t doing their job.

Barbed wire across the top of your fences.

It would be horrible if the dog for hurt, but it would be more horrible if you or your child got attacked by the dog.

If the owners aren't willing to control it then do what you have to do to keep it out of your yard.

That is terrible! I adore dogs but, in this instance, I would suggest an extremely high velocity water pistol or even a pellet gun. The latter will sting a lot but not actually injure the dog. It needs to associate your yard with extreme discomfort and pain if its owners are such anti-social wanknoodles. Your safety, especially that of your child comes first.

I have dogs and would be raging at this.

Firstly I would speak to them and threaten to hurt it if it goes on your land again. At the end of the day it isn’t the dogs fault but children come before dogs full stop.

Can you secure your garden so it can’t get in?

Or borrow some really big guarding dogs for a while so it gets a shock when it does enter. I would lend you mine if you weren’t the other side of the world

Get a small amount of electric fencing and put it on posts above your current fence, so your child is in no danger but the dog gets a shock every time it tries.

OP are you in Australia - where? This is the rule for Victoria, and probably applies nationwide.

agriculture.vic.gov.au/pets/dogs/legal-requirements-for-dog-owners/confine-your-dog

Legal requirements for dog owners

Under the Domestic Animals Act 1994, all dog owners must securely confine dogs to the property. This means your yard must have a closed gate, and an escape-proof fence that your dog cannot jump, get under or through.

Legally, visitors must also have safe access to your front door, without being stopped by your dog.

If your dog could get through your gates or fencing, you can be fined even if it doesn't actually leave your property.

Magistrates have the power to require owners of pets that have escaped to carry out works to ensure this does not happen again. To make sure your dog is properly confined, keep it in the backyard behind a locked gate.

The ranger is pathetic, he may be their friend. Send an official email to him, and his superiors detailing the incident, (paper trail) and escalate to the police. That is a dangerous dog.

Thanks all. Will go back to council but couldn't get through yesterday. Unfortunately where we are laws like those stated above have been rendered completely pointless by deregulation that allows councils to define what adequate supervision of a dog looks like. Other neighbours confirm that the dog is a pain and the council will do diddly squat about it.

Unfortunately DS seems really shaken up by it all. He kept bursting into tears all day and talking about the dog barking. Heard another dog bark and lost it. We saw our neighbour again across the road in the evening, out walking the dog. It was on a very tight leash and growling at us. She said loudly to the man she was with "oh we'll have to hold onto [dog's name], there's that stupid bitch again". Unsurprisingly DS cried all the way home because the dog scared him.

So menacing dog and bloody rude antagonistic neighbour. Next time that happens I'm calling the police, though there's not much they will do about a 60 year old woman swearing at me while she restrains her dog...

Can you not smile politely and say 'yes, the stupid bitch who will shoot your dog next time it ventures on
MY property and threatens MY child?' (Head tilt, tinkly laugh)? Or will that get YOU arrested for threatening behaviour- if it's that type of 'they can do no wrong' place?

Next time its roaming ring the ranger and tell them there is an abandoned dog roaming and it will get run over or cause an accident. Hopefully it will then have a go at the ranger and go to the pound where the owners will have to pay to get the thing back. I love dogs, but the attitude towards dogs roaming here (Australia) is shocking, no one gives a toss until a dog or person gets seriously injured. Anon call to ranger everytime and recruit friends to call as well as concerned neighbours.

Feed it chocolate.

Feed it chocolate

Nice

When you call the Council, ask for a written copy of what their dog supervision policy is. Persist until you get it. If it's vague, get onto your Councillor about it, - ask why they think it's OK to have uncontrolled dogs around livestock and kids. (I know it's a sheepdog, but the same right to roam will apply to all dogs)

Call the ranger and police EVERY TIME you see it roaming. Get your friends to do it too. This is a situation where you have to make a "nuisance" of yourself.
IME , constant nagging can prod people into action, as they don't like the thought that others are onto them, and know they aren't doing their job!

We do already have access to the dog supervision policy. It's meaninglessly vague, probably deliberately so. It also basically says the only thing that will be done is that the neighbours will be told to sort it out among themselves, unless the dog bites multiple people.

Ah yes, the "Common sense" solution. No need for actual meaningful health and safety regulation when you can offload responsibility in the safe knowledge you aren't going to be sued for negligence (which point will clarify where we are to anyone who knows this system)

What country are you in OP ?

“Meaninglessly vague” : like your lack of responses to people asking where in the world you are.

Collaborate, sorry, but that's deliberate. i am capable of finding out the legal position that is locally relevant, I've already got the specific written position of the council. What I don't have is much detailed experience of dogs or dog owners, which is why I posted on here asking dog owners for their opinions and perspective. While I accept that there could be specific local variance in how dog owners think about their pets, I suspect that working border collie owners across the English-speaking world are going to have more in common than do the entirety of dog owners in my country.

But the question of fault depends on local attitudes and laws. We cannot possibly know what they are.

Deliberate why though? Are you getting a kick out of withholding information that others may be able to find a use of?

To me it seems you are being deliberately obtuse, to go with your woe is me attitude.

Collaborate, sorry, but that's deliberate. i am capable of finding out the legal position that is locally relevant, I've already got the specific written position of the council. What I don't have is much detailed experience of dogs or dog owners, which is why I posted on here asking dog owners for their opinions and perspective. While I accept that there could be specific local variance in how dog owners think about their pets, I suspect that working border collie owners across the English-speaking world are going to have more in common than do the entirety of dog owners in my country

The opinions of random MNers/ owners of border collies means fuck all. As you know very well.

What matters is what your council says, which you could download and share. Oh, hang on, you could have downloaded it in your OP.

Look, no one in their right mind would allow their dog to jump a fence, and growl/potentially attack a 19 month old and then blame the home owner's fault.

What you have is a very stupid and selfish dog owner.

There's nothing we can do about that. You need to keep getting on to your council. Install CCTV so you have evidence of this dog jumping your fence and going for your child.

Try to fortify your fence if you. Add trellis to make it higher. Anything you can do.

Call your version of RSPCA or the dog warden EVERYTIME the dog is in your garden.

Really annoy the authorities. If the worse happens and your child is bitten whilst in his own garden, make a massive complaint to the counsel.