Dog owners: how is this our fault?

[mugOfCoffee]

We live opposite a family that has a very aggressive border collie. It spends most of its life as a working sheepdog elsewhere, but when it's in town they let it roam unchecked.

It comes into our yard (jumps the fence) and bails us up, barking and snarling, ears and tail down, a hand's length from 19mo DS in the pram.

Today it happened for the fourth time in the past year (numerous other times it's been in our yard, pooing on the lawn). I said to the neighbour "we could really do without this. It's not on having your dog barking at our baby in the pram" and she responded "well sorr-eee, you stupid f*ing bitch".

I phoned the council. Ranger talked to neighbour, who said it is our fault. Ranger has therefore advised we talk it through with our lovely neighbours. Who incidentally happen to be pillars of the local community and members of a particular political party.

How is this our fault? What have we done that this dog is responding reasonably to us being in oyr own yard???

Nothing really to add except sympathy - border collies can be absolute sods when they are left to their own devices. I've had a few over the years, and, unless trained to within an inch of their lives, they can be too clever for their own good and go around looking for mischief when they are bored!

If it's a working dog then it's probably not been taught to be social and behave around people. It's trying to treat you like sheep (or cattle) and herd you in your own yard. Maybe a water pistol to discourage it?

tell them you're going to start leaving poison rat bait in your garden. Start visibly dropping sausages.

Not poisonous ones obviously but don't tell them that.

Sorry if this has already been suggested but can you get something like chicken wire to put it up over your fence to give it more height, to deter the dog? I know it shouldn't be your responsibility to stop the dog coming in your garden but it might offer you extra peace of mind. Plus you could always invoice the cost to the neighbours if you're feeling brave enough!

I agree that making the fence higher may be a solution. Annoying but sounds like your options are limited if the NDN is an arse and the people who are meant to deal with this, won't.

Can you put up a cctv camera, so you can get recordings of it coming into your yard each time?

I think the main point is that we shouldn't have to deter the dog in the first place. It's a working sheepdog. It can jump at least 2m, probably higher. All the fences in our street are below waist height...

And Zaphod yes I agree it is probably trying to herd us. But it's hard to tell what herding looks like, vs. extreme aggression (snarl, ears back, tail down, still - not a happy leaping barky dog at all). I have spent time round other kinds of sheepdog (kelpie cross kinds of things) and they looked absorbed and businesslike when herding, but not insanely aggressive like this thing is.

Water pistol might be a good option...

Water pistol with food colouring in.

I came on this thread and expected the usual MN ridiculousness about dogs... but no, definitely YANBU.

I wouldn't advocate spraying a dog that appears aggressive and is 20cm away from your child with a water pistol. If it's frightened by the water pistol, it may jump, and snap in an unexpected direction, catching your child even though it didn't actually mean to. Not a risk worth taking. Similarly, don't try and distract it with food - you will risk the dog learning that there is delicious food in your garden, and hence coming around to visit more often.

With persistence, how much chance do you think you've got of getting the police / dog warden to take this seriously, or are the family generally getting away with murder? Have the neighbours also been having problems, and are they raising complaints? Like a PP, I, too, would want what the ranger said in writing from him.

To misquote other parts of MN, you don't have a dog problem, you have a 'D'Neighbour problem.

Sod that!

Big bucket of water.

Dog will not return.

Not your fault dog was in your garden when you emptied your bucket.

I'm in Victoria, and it's the responsibility of the owner to contain the dog.

I'd be amazed if it was different anywhere else.

regarding the suggestion of filming - could you get a cyclists camera that fits on your shoulder and wear it every time you go out? It will be a pain in the neck but might reap the benefits and you wont have to worry about stop/starting it or holding it like a phone

I would try and film too, as mentioned above a GroPro or similar that you can wear so your hands free.
The ranger sounds like a prat, hope you get sorted OP

Film it. I understand it's difficult, but you need to show evidence. Have your phone always ready.

And talk to someone else at the council and make clear to them that this ranger's response was not acceptable.

This can't be in the UK and wherever it is it's still the responsibility of an owner to control their dog. Can't understand the reaction of the dog warden - I would go back to them repeatedly to warn of a very dangerous situation so he/she can't cover their back later.

Poison, as a pp said, great idea. Tell NBS in a matter of fact way that there is now rat poison all around your garden, and it's not your responsibility if their animal trespasses on your property ...

The dog actually sounds more fearful than aggressive.

And this may sound weird but if you have a ball to hand offer to throw it and a Border Collie will most likely become your best friend.

I agree that it’s not your responsibility to deter the dog but in reality if you want it to stop it looks like it’s down to you to find a solution.

I agree with not provoking it any further if you’re unsure if it’s temprement but I’m afraid that other than securing your boundaries I don’t know what else to suggest. Prickly bushes would be good but a long term solution to establish them.

What a horrible situation.

Ranger sounds a twat.

You talked to your neighbour & they insulted you!

Even if the dog wasn't being aggressive it shouldn't be in your garden!

Get some cctv installed in your yard and get filming them. Get it on Facebook, local media.
If they’re that easy with their insults to you, I’m sure they’ve upset plenty of others too. Talk to your neighbours.

I'd suggest screaming "My BABY" in a bloodcurdling manner so that all the neighbours come out and see the dog being aggressive.
They also don't like loud bangs, but as someone else said, don't do anything like that if they could bite you.

Next time, contact the local dog warden. They are bang out of order.

OP can you clarify where in the world you are so people can offer useful advice? If this happened in the UK it would be the dog warden you’d speak to. If dog was not under owner’s control the warden would seize it and owner would have to pay to get it back. Clearly that’s not the case where you are if the authorities aren’t interested!

Call the police next time and say there is a dog attacking you and your baby on your land - which there is - if it is that close to your child I’d suggest using a sling with your child on your back so that they are out of harms way

It's not herding behaviour. As a way of getting video evidence, you could set a hidden camera up to prove the dog is jumping into your garden and behaving in an aggressive manner (possibly caused by fear, it's hard to know for certain from a description). I wouldn't say to use a water pistol as, if the dog is acting out of fear of people, it may well make the behaviour worse. Your best chance is either video evidence or taking measures to stop the dog accessing your garden in the first place. Yes, working collies (most collies to be fair) can jump 2 m. However, it's the same way that you see Police dogs scaling a wall in a display. They need something to get hold of with their front and back paws. Chicken wire should work as the dog will struggle to get a proper hold. Another idea may be to spray the top of the fence with white vinegar. You will probably need to reapply every so often, but dogs mostly avoid areas that they don't like the smell of. None of the suggestions are 100% guaranteed to work and, if they do, they may well only work for a short time. The only way to guarantee an end is getting action taken against the owners to keep their dog under proper control and in their garden.

Put CCTV up. And some competing parties might help you to distribute the videos.