AIBU to expect my kids to not to told off for speaking English in a welsh medium school?

[Hairyfairy01]

I have 2 dc in year 3 and 6 who attend a welsh medium primary school and have been taught in the welsh medium since they started school. However both dc are brought up in an english speaking household. English medium education at primary level is not available in this area of wales. Both dc have reported to me that they get told off for speaking English in the classroom, corridors, lunchtime and playtime by both teachers and pupil members of the school 'welsh' council. Now I have no issues with encouraging the welsh language and totally support their scheme of rewarding pupils for speaking welsh in social situations. However I do have an issue of telling kids off for speaking english, not so much in lesson time, but more at lunchtime / playtime. Surely at these 'downtime' occasions kids should be able to speak whatever language they like, be it French, Chinese or whatever. I can only imagine that this is what happens in other primary schools where children's home / first language is different to the main language of the school occurs? Are they all told off for speaking French / Chinese etc? Feeling furious but not sure if iabu?

But actually punishing the child like this instead of just reminding them to speak in Welsh if required?

We’re a few weeks away from the end of the school year. Maybe these children have been reminded throughout the year to speak welsh and continue not to.

Last week a Welsh council was forced had to agree to pay for a pupil to have private polish lessons because he wasn't being exposed to the polish language. Maybe Welsh councils should have to pay for English children to have English lessons because they are not exposed to English at school.

Treat all children equal.

They are exposed to English at school, even in welsh medium schools they are taught English. What a daft thing to say.

I live in Gwynedd and am a Governor at a primary school and thus would never happen at our school. In class maybe they would be expected to respond in Welsh bit if unable to the fact they understand the question or request and answer at all would be good enough. However we do come from a University City and nearly 30% of our pupils are English as a second language let alone Welsh probably sways that. Report it. It is unacceptable to expect children to act unnaturally in downtime.

So many typos sorry.

Puzzled - I completely agree, a gentle reminder would have been sufficient. It's not being naughty, it's an easy slip to make. Punishment does not fit the crime!

My Welsh friends all said they hated having to learn Welsh having found it pointless as it's not spoken anywhere else. I think it is lovely to keep the language alive personally but kind of see their point. It must hard to recruit teachers from outside of Wales too?

It’s estimated that around the world 60-75% of people speak at least two languages. Lots of countries, including Wales, have more than one official language. South Africa has around a dozen. Bi/multilingualism carries social, psychological and maybe even health benefits (faster stroke recovery, protection against dementia). So if you’re going to in Wales you might as well reap the benefits of bilingualism.

My Welsh friends all said they hated having to learn Welsh having found it pointless as it's not spoken anywhere else

Yup.

It must hard to recruit teachers from outside of Wales too

Yup.

And there aren't many jobs.

My Welsh friends all said they hated having to learn Welsh having found it pointless as it's not spoken anywhere else. I think it is lovely to keep the language alive personally but kind of see their point.

It is spoken in other places. Admittedly only a few. Someone already mentioned Patagonia. There’s a fair bit of welsh language stuff going on in London. There’s a fair bit in Canada.

www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/m/article/welsh/

And this in Japan....

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/japanese-university-students-learning-welsh-12621217

It must hard to recruit teachers from outside of Wales too?

Not at all. Majority of teachers in South Wales (at least) aren’t welsh speaking. Obviously you need to be for jobs at welsh medium primary or secondary schools, but for English medium schools it’s only the Welsh teachers that need to speak welsh.

Firstly, the ignorance from some of the posters on this thread is unbelievable...

Now OP, in your original post, you mentioned the children are 'told off'. This is very likely to be they're reminded to speak Welsh. You then later massively drip-feed and say they're made to stand against a wall for their play-time. In this case, you must talk to the school because this kind of shaming punishment is unacceptable. They can explain what has happened. People on MN can only speculate.

However, for your part, you must encourage your children to speak Welsh if you want them to be educated in a Welsh-medium school. They must surely be picking up in your views and a lot of what you've said about your children speaking better Welsh than Welsh people comes across as very judgmental.

People learn Welsh in Wales because it is their heritage. Even Gwynedd has bilingual schools to which you can send your child for an English-medium education should you wish. There is a choice.

It is not at all 'useless' to learn Welsh. Over half a million people in Wales speak Welsh. UK wide, it is probably a lot higher as Welsh speakers outside of Wales aren't counted.

Welsh has a very strong Latin root which makes it very beneficial for learning French or Spanish (and I assume Italian). Being able to pronounce lots of different sounds helps when learning other languages too.

I think it is discrimination.

I do not like the idea of segregation of children due to language and why pull them up (seems a form of bully tactics going on there, involving the school council!!!). What would happen if English schools started using the same tactics to those who enter into the school system. People would be up in arms.

What behaviour to use on children, when schools should be a safe environment, the teachers should be ashamed of themselves for being such bullies for that is what this is, whatever way they chose to dress it up in.

Well said, professormoody.
I am English, but have lived in Wales for 20 years and worked here longer; both my DCs were born here. Racism dressed up as national pride is rampant and unashamed.

Stupid to equate national pride with racism. The English/British national anthem is more racist than Mae Hen Wlad fy Nhadau.

The European Union recognises the right to use your home language without discrimination

Sounds like that would make an interesting case then, where schools wish to actually punish. And yes, I know we're supposed to be leaving the EU, but we're still in it for now

You really do have to wonder what's going on in the minds of some of these "it's GOT to be Welsh" school leaders ...

My DC`s went to a bilingual primary school in Wales, both found work outside the EU so never needed the Welsh, one son had to learn Spanish, the other son worked with so many nationalities he just learnt what was needed to work with others. Both of them said they only recalled a few things from school.

So you have a choice, either they go bilingual in which case some jobs in Wales ask interestingly for Welsh as Mother tongue, which means it was spoken at home, or you send your child to a Welsh medium school and go with the flow. My friends son was told off as were his friends if they were caught using English in the corridor or at break times. It narked them as does anything that irritates teenagers.

So you have a choice, either they go bilingual in which case some jobs in Wales ask interestingly for Welsh as Mother tongue,

Have you actually seen job adverts that specify this? Who were the employer?

Not at all. Majority of teachers in South Wales (at least) aren’t welsh speaking. Obviously you need to be for jobs at welsh medium primary or secondary schools, but for English medium schools it’s only the Welsh teachers that need to speak welsh

This isn't true at all.

Welsh Language is compulsory in English medium primary schools from Reception to Year 6.

A primary school teacher in Wales, in an English medium school, is expected to be able to teach Welsh to a Year 6 level. Most of the daily commands will be given in Welsh, and if they aren't, Estyn would not be happy.

It's extremely hard for non-Welsh speakers to get a teaching job in Wales, firstly due to the lack of jobs and secondly due to the fact that you do have to be able to speak Welsh to a certain level.

It’s a welsh medium school afterall .... if you don’t like it then send them to an English medium school.

Interesting to read. ...www.economist.com/britain/2005/08/11/from-mother-tongue-to-meal-ticket

More info. ... www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/councils-move-make-welsh-language-13915348

@Calm33 it is not discrimination. The OP chose to live in Wales, and send their children to a Welsh medium school. If the children were punished as the OP drip-fed, that is unacceptable and the OP must bring this up with the school. However, if you choose a Welsh-medium education, you support the aims of the system which is to raise bilingual children! You wouldn't move to France and start harping on about how the schools are French-medium only!

French teachers do not stop the English children from speaking English outside of the class.
If it were a child migrant who spoke their own language but also had chosen to come to England - the teacher would not be allowed to treat the child in the manner which the Welsh teacher choses to do and also to get the children of the 'school council' to inform on them.

I am not against Welsh being taught - it is the manner which the children both English and Welsh are being taught to behave. Are not teachers there to nurture and encourage ALL the children?

My Welsh friends all said they hated having to learn Welsh having found it pointless as it's not spoken anywhere else

My Welsh friend didn't have to learn Welsh, it was their first language.

Maybe that's the difference? Welsh medium is presumably only resented by those for whom Welsh is a second language?

You wouldn't move to France and start harping on about how the schools are French-medium only!
Not a good comparison, really- France has one official language, which is French. Wales has two, English and Welsh.

Yes, but sending your child to a Welsh-medium school is a choice people make. If you make that choice you should support the language. Absolutely teachers should not be shaming children, and that should be dealt with. However, if the OP doesn't want their children to become fluent in Welsh, they need to be sent to a bilingual school (which most Gwynedd secondaries are, at least).

sakura sorry, in South Gwynedd there are no bilingual or English secondary schools. From Pwllheli, Porthmadoc, Bala, down to Tywyn, all are Welsh medium