AIBU to expect my kids to not to told off for speaking English in a welsh medium school?

[Hairyfairy01]

I have 2 dc in year 3 and 6 who attend a welsh medium primary school and have been taught in the welsh medium since they started school. However both dc are brought up in an english speaking household. English medium education at primary level is not available in this area of wales. Both dc have reported to me that they get told off for speaking English in the classroom, corridors, lunchtime and playtime by both teachers and pupil members of the school 'welsh' council. Now I have no issues with encouraging the welsh language and totally support their scheme of rewarding pupils for speaking welsh in social situations. However I do have an issue of telling kids off for speaking english, not so much in lesson time, but more at lunchtime / playtime. Surely at these 'downtime' occasions kids should be able to speak whatever language they like, be it French, Chinese or whatever. I can only imagine that this is what happens in other primary schools where children's home / first language is different to the main language of the school occurs? Are they all told off for speaking French / Chinese etc? Feeling furious but not sure if iabu?

The "English" did no such thing, and were as much victims of the ruling class (whether Roman, Saxon, Danes, Viking, Norman or British). The average person living in Wales, Cornwall, Ireland, Scotland or England were treated like shit, wherever they lived.

That poster said English, not the The English.

OP, yabu. There is nothing wrong with a school which aims to promote and develop the minority language expecting children to speak in that language. They also expect them to follow other school rules while they are in their care.

Adoreamoose, the key to your situation is the phrase “many different languages”. I think that if you were in a school in Burnley or Tower Hamlets where 75% of the pupils spoke the same South Asian language at home then you might be more concerned about playground language use: about maximising their English immersion at school, not isolating the speakers of English and other languages, and enabling playground staff to keep an eye out for bullying (presumably the last two are less of an issue in Welsh language schools though).

OP do you children have to wear a saesneg Ddim badge then? (I think I've got the Welsh bit right)

The school need to address their bullying problem, not their language problem.

Students really don’t use home language in the playground - it’s very rare. Even if they have the same home language, they generally prefer to use English. If there is an issue of students bullying others in home language, then the bullying needs to be addressed.

Haven't read whole thread but as far as I'm aware it's been like that for the last 30 odd years! I think they need to enforce Welsh throughout the day especially if English is main language in school.

I haven’t read the whole thread either but I teach a lot of international pupils and we do reprimand for speaking their home language in ‘public’ parts of the school.

So a chat in Chinese in a dorm is fine but around school where there are other people they are reminded to speak English.

‘Tell off’ is probably too strong a word but the expectation is speak in the target language and I don’t think that’s an unreasonable request in a welsh medium primary school.

My mother had the opposite as a child. Native Welsh speaker, living in Wales, they would be caned if overheard speaking Welsh in the playground! Long time ago obviously. That’s how strongly the powers that be wanted to destroy the language. So you can understand why now they are so passionate to preserve and encourage it.

Having grown up in an Arab country but in English medium education, I still regret not having the opportunity to learn a second language thoroughly as it is proven to improve language development and learning further languages.

As for Scotland, we have three recognised languages and you can ask for government documents in Scots or Gaelic if you so prefer. When someone I know who works for Hansard, came to work at Holyrood for a short time, she had to have a quick Scots introduction so that she could understand some of the words used on the floor of the Parliament.

I would have loved to have done my degree in Gaelic as well as English and Scots but at the time joint honours was only available if you already had the Gaelic. Gaelic medium education is only limited by the number of Gàidhlig-speaking teachers; the parental wish for it is much greater - even in the Lowlands - than the ability to provide it.

My father was at school in the 1920s and 1930s and he told me that his school had one day a week where they were all taught in the local variant of Scots so they didn't lose it - and this was a well-known and academically-respected private school rather than the public schools who were busy belting children with the tawse for speaking Scots.

We spoke English at home but Irish was expected at school. It created an atmosphere we we spoke Irish fluently and confidently.

As with cheval, my mother and her siblings would even be physically chastised if they spoke their own native language in school, rather than English. She was a Scottish Gaelic speaker.
I don't think it is unreasonable in a bilingual school. Would you be happier about it if they were being taught in Spanish or Mandarin rather than Welsh? If you feel so strongly I would suggest maybe move to England?

My kids attend a gaelscoil, in Ireland. The rules are very clear and are reiterated over and over. Irish language only once inside the school gate unless in English lessons.
There are children in the school that speak both English and other languages at home (thai, Hindi, Polish off the top of my head) but they speak Irish in school, and will get chastised if they persistently do not.
I am sure it's written in your schools policy that this is the case. You have no grounds to complain.

I know people who experienced this growing up in central wales in the 90s.
Work with the staff to not be so hard on the children, and encourage your children to speak welsh as much as possible. Bilingualism is an asset to a developing brain.
Historically Welsh was outlawed by the English so keeping the language going is an emotive subject.
The European Union recognises the right to use your home language without discrimination, but we voted ourselves out of the EU...so you may have to get used to these attitudes around Welsh in schools if you choose to live in Wales?

It is not reasonable to punish a child for speaking their mother tongue. I taught ESL immersion in a school with children from lots of countries. It was English in the classroom (and they were little children, so I had to remind them a lot), but in the playground pupils spoke a whole mixture of languages. It gave a bit of a break to those who in class time were operating in a second or third language.

Also, the flavour of the month in educational theory is to affirm the first language rather than to punish children for it.

Whst exactly is Welsh medium

Hmm. I worked in a school with a multinational flavour. We had loads of kids who wanted to speak Polish etc but we actively discouraged it as it excluded others. If the kids are supposed to speak Welsh in school, then they probably should be, even at break. Teachers etc are probably told to discourage other language use. And yes, the language rule applied to ALL the kids, so no one was allowed to speak any of the others mentioned above, even if it was their mother tongue.

It is a problem when recruiting outsiders in certain areas e.g. NHS. If people on a career path which means they only stay in a job for x amount of time to progress up the ladder. If they happen to have a young family and were to think of applying for a post in some areas of Wales they are put off by Welsh medium schools and exam boards in the areas they would have to live. That is something we have to live with. Such a shame, it is a lovely place to raise a family for a time.

Whst exactly is Welsh medium

Children taught (almost) exclusively using the welsh language.

By year 3 they'll be completely fluent in Welsh so there's no 'reason' they'd have to use English.

Using English at play and lunch time will likely slide over into lesson time. It's easier to have s blanket policy of Welsh only.

It's also not only for the good of your dc...there will be nursery and reception kids about, not yet fluent, who benefit hugely from being completely immersed in the language during school time.

My mum is Welsh. Years ago when we were at my nana's we found her old school exercise books and I was laughing at her descriptions of "the horrid English" in one history book. She started telling me about all the things she'd learned about English oppression of Wales, the 'Welsh Not' really stuck in my head. Now I do see why preserving and expanding the use of Welsh is so important to many in Wales and as the op here has repeatedly said herself, it makes total sense for the use of English to be banned in lessons in Welsh medium schools. But I think punishing children for using English outside of lessons is wrong, and uncomfortably reminiscent of the policies used to oppress young Welsh speakers in the past. And sure, you can point to the link between those policies and the need to actively promote Welsh today- but that doesn't really make it any less unreasonable to take such a hard line approach and punish children for speaking English.

Definitely should not happen. How would they deal with say two Polish children speaking to one another in their native language. That surely would be racist, discriminatory.

I can't see how this would be at all acceptable were it another minority language. The only thing I can think is that if they were slack about people speaking English they'd rapidly have a situation where Welsh was very much the second choice of language for social communication. I can see why they wouldn't want to do this. Tbh I'd suck it up but make sure my children had lots and lots of English interaction outside of school or they could be limited in their wider experience of the language when they come to look for universities and colleges.

I can't believe so few posters have picked up on OP's child being made to stand against a wall during what should have been their playtime for this - why not just get a set of stocks and be done with it?

I'm very much in favour of discipline around genuinely bad behaviour and admire those who wish to preserve a language - even if it's effectively useless outside its region of origin. But actually punishing the child like this instead of just reminding them to speak in Welsh if required? Just NO

Tbh I'd suck it up but make sure my children had lots and lots of English interaction outside of school or they could be limited in their wider experience of the language when they come to look for universities and colleges.