to be confused by newborn suffocating during breastfeed? :(

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www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/28/parents-suing-nhs-newborn-suffocated-breast-feed-due-negligent/

Would like to get other people's views on this situation? As someone who has breastfed, I'm really confused and saddened by this situation. However, I'm not convinced the midwife is to blame either

I'm in a VBAC group on Facebook and all the Americans are all siding with this woman

America is such a litigious society that doesn't surprise me. They would also have to pay for all the medical care so would sue to ensure they could pay for care. I'm sure this poor girl will require things that the NHS can't provide but the majority of her medical care will be paid for.

This happens a lot on obstetrics wards. Something goes wrong in delivery or after. It may have been someone's fault, it may have been unpreventable or - more likely - everyone made a reasonable call, but if they'd been psychic it could have been prevented.

Disabled children are expensive to raise. They're unlikely to be able to put her in an ordinary nursery - they'll either have to pay for specialist care or one of them will have to give up work. As she gets older she'll need therapies and wheelchairs and adaptive equipment etc.

In all likelihood, this wasn't the midwife's fault, but the NHS may decide to settle out of court anyway. The family will undoubtedly use that money to care for their daughter.

It's very easy to say we wouldn't sue the hardworking NHS workers, and I really hope I wouldn't, but if it was the difference between being able to buy my DD a powerchair or not and there was a chance it had happened because of negligence ...

Oh, just seen it's going to court. Well, they may have been advised that it probably wouldn't.

I am shocked at the tone of responses on this thread and the lack of sympathy for the injured child and her parents.

How are people so adamant about the midwife being not to blame and the parents being idiots who need to have every last thing spelled out to them? It's entirely plausible and likely that the midwife said "hold your baby like this to feed her" and so the mother held her in what she thought was the correct position. In this scenario, the midwife is the trained expert, the mother and father are relying on her advice.

I too have had midwives tell me that babies cannot suffocate while feeding. I refused to believe them.

My heart goes out to the child and parents in this case and I cannot believe the pounding they are getting on here.

My baby needed help to breathe after birth, and once moved to the postnatal ward I was told by a couple of midwives that babies can't suffocate when bf. Honestly, in the state I was in at that time (I'm not stupid) but id had no sleep at all for 5 days and birth trauma, common sense probably didn't come into it.

I worried about DS breathing as I have pretty big boobs and couldn’t necessarily see his face. They told me that the baby would pull away to breathe and that even when they were squished up against the breast their nostrils would flare to allow breathing. It’s not just as simple as ‘surely you know the baby needs to breathe’ - if you’re utterly knackered and told in no uncertain terms that the baby will be able to breathe, you’d not question it. And if unfamiliar with breastfeeding and sleep deprived I can see how it could happen. Poor baby and the poor family!

When I had DD1, my labour was a nightmare from start to finish. Three days, resulting in failed forceps and an emergency c section. I was an absolute wreck afterwards. Completely fucked. I didn’t attempt to breastfeed and no one questioned it.

I was moved to the post natal ward at 1am, long after my husband had been sent home. At 3am I was so exhausted I was seeing things. I couldn’t settle DD, I didn’t have a single clue what I was doing and I could barely move. I hadn’t seen a midwife in hours.

So, for reasons that I will never myself understand to this day, I took her into bed beside me, snuggled her up under my arm and she fell asleep. As did I, unintentionally. I woke up as she tumbled from the bed.

I hammered on the call button and finally someone came. They rushed her down to paeds to be checked over while I howled in a ball.

She was absolutely fine (to this day I don’t understand how) but I was utterly berated by a midwife for being so irresponsible.

The truth was, I wasn’t well enough to be in charge of a newborn by myself at that point. I can see that now. I don’t think I have the words to convey how poorly I was at the time. Now, in my state of full health, I would never have done that.

The impact this incident had on my mental health was huge at the time, even though she was fine. It is cathartic to talk about it. I replay it in my head most days but I have told very few people in real life because I’m ashamed of it.

I have been told by midwives that babies can not suffocate whilst feeding. I have fed 4 children, including tandem feeding twins, I have fed for over 5 years. Not once I have been told about the risk of suffocation.

I have been told, on several occasions, there was no need to push my breast away from my babies nose, to leave a tiny gap, as he fed. I was worried it was blocking his airways.

Post maternity care is shocking. If people read my account of what happened in a hospital ward a couple of years ago they may think it’s a work of fiction. But it happened.

Binky - please don’t feel ashamed. You have nothing to feel ashamed about. A maternity ward is the only ward where you are handed a newborn post major surgery and refused adequate pain relief. Disgraceful that the midwife berated you for there lack of care. Please Forgive yourself.

I agree that the midwife isn’t to blame for this.
How can parents actually not know that a human needs to breathe?
I also agree that there was potentially an issue there already, if the baby didn’t try to pull away if it was suffocating.

I did exactly the same thing, Blinky, though in my case DS was still there on the bed beside me when I woke up the next morning.
When he was about three months, I went to a baby first aid class and all the mums admitted how worried we were about dropping them.
"Oh, you will," she said cheerfully. "They're tougher than they look." I didn't, as it happened, but DS did crawl head first off the bed a couple of times and seemed completely unaffected by the whole thing.
I think most parents have an "Oh shit" moment from those early sleep-deprived months.

I totally get the knackered/sleep deprived all that stuff. But it doesn’t make it a case of medical negligence IYKWIM. Because of course the same thing could happen at home. On Day 17 of non stop breastfeeding I was hallucinating almost. I could easily have fallen asleep on a sofa with a baby and had a poor outcome. But that’s not medical negligence.
I mean what if you took your baby home and didn’t feed the baby when the baby cried and then said, when the baby was malnourished- but the midwives didn’t tell me to feed the baby?
At what point is there personal responsibility (albeit clouded by hormones and extreme sleep deprivation) and actual medical negligence?

@KoshaMangsho There was a recent case with exactly that - a Sri Lankan couple won against the NHS as due to the language barrier they weren't aware they had to feed their baby, and he became malnourished and brain damaged.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/13/sri-lankan-wins-lawsuit-against-nhs-midwives-fail-explain-needed/

I followed that case and I think the headline is quite misleading. The main issue came down to the fact that because she barely spoke and kept smiling her infant’s obvious deterioration and malnourishment was ignored by medical professionals. It wasn’t as simple as ‘they didn’t realise he needn’t to be fed.’ It was more that the baby wasn’t feeding and he was deteriorating and she wasn’t able to sufficiently highlight her and her baby’s distress to the nurses/midwives.

Oh Binky you must have been utterly terrified.

My worst moment was at 3am after a 3 day labour ending in theatre, DD was screaming the place down but couldn't latch. The MW said I should try expressing, then brought me a breast pump: it was in a jug of Milton, and had been taken apart.

I had to sit there, rebuilding it, while DD cried, I cried, and the woman in the next bed started to complain about the noise. Naturally, I couldn't express enough for her, had to ask for formula. She had it, the MW told me she'd watch the baby while I went to the loo, and didn't watch her at all. She choked in her cot, and was a deep purple when I came back. I screamed the place down.

Postnatal treatment is fucking awful in many instances.

Whoever called the couple in this case 'grabby' should be ashamed of themselves. They're not doing it for a holiday in Cancun or anything.

What did she choke on Estrella? I hope you made a complaint!

I had fed her, then went off to the loo. The MW didnt keep an eye, and she brought her milk back up and choked on it.

I didn't complain, I was a traumatised, only just uncatheterised, sleepless, walking wounded nightmare.

I just feel sorry for all concerned.

I am a trained nurse with no degree as old school trained and I wouldn’t say any of my friends are daft but their lack of basic medical knowledge reduces me to utter shock sometimes. People only know what they know and new parents need so much support.

The post natal care in this country is pretty piss poor.

Binky don’t you dare feel bad my lovely hand on heart I don’t know one parent who hasn’t had that omg moment your midwife was a massive cow. I want you to shout that out loud everything this replays in your head my midwife was a massive cow

Worringly i watched my sister being shown how to breastfeed only yesterday, and after a short while I asked about the fact the feeding nurse was pushing baby onto the breast so firmly her nose was covered ... she just said " oh yes let's move her a little" and continued ...

I didnt breastfeed so had no clue of correct positioning- yes it's obvious baby needs to breathe but if a feeding nurse can miss it whilst assisting I can see how an exhausted mother might. Ive spoken to Pals regarding my concerns.

@Bobbiepin

I'm sure this poor girl will require things that the NHS can't provide but the majority of her medical care will be paid for.

Medical care, yes, but the threshold for social seems to be increasing all the time and paying for care is expensive.

I don't know - on one hand no one warned me and I have massive boobs on other I kept a very close watch on my DC whilst BFeeding instictively.

With first I did loads of research which was just as well as none of the MW helped me bf or show much interest in us at all.

Despite that I forgot to burp pfb. I'd had straight forward no drugs birth - though due to slight tear could have done with some pain relief.

It just didn't occur to me. Change of shift MW actually checked on us and was concerned with pfb - asked permission to take her off – which freaked me out -few steps down corridor as she was taking her to be seen – loudest series of burps and she had a better colour.

She came back and said you have been burping her after feeding – I felt so stupid.

@bigKiteFlying I very rarely did burp DS, but he rarely seemed to need it and usually picking him up and lying him back down again did the job. I had to jiggle my niece and nephew up and down for ages to get the same effect. Don't know if that's a breast vs bottle thing or what.

Thank you all. She’s currently lying beside me pretending she is a cat (when she should be sleeping) 🙂

I'm not convinced the lack of breastfeeding advice was the problem but I am surprised that after emergency assistance to help the baby breathe, she was just handed to mum for a feed rather than taken for observation. DS1 did not breathe spontaneously at birth and had s low apgar score. After assistance in the room and a quick cuddle, he was taken off to SCBU for monitoring. All was fine in the end but makes me wonder why they didn't monitor this baby's oxygen saturation for a bit.

@BinkyTheBlinky - about ten days after bring DS2 home I was up in the night feeding him. He was (and remains) a windy chap so I always held him upright for a bit before popping him back in his Moses. I feel asleep with him in the chair and woke to a thud as he tumbled off my lap and onto the floor. I was absolutely mortified. Took DH hours to calm me down and convince me I wasn't the worst mother ever. The cumulative effect of running on little sleep just got to me eventually. He's fine, I'm still reliving it but I think he still loves me.