To want to escalate this?

[rosesandflowers1]

Prepared to be told that I'm BU as I'm very emotionally invested in this and sorry for the essay in advance

When DD1 was at primary, she had a problem right from the beginning with a particular girl. Just silly things like "I don't like [DD]'s hair today" or saying she couldn't play with them. It was very childish and silly but they were children and it was impacting DD quite a lot so eventually we had a word with the school. They had a whole class discussion about being nice with each other and promised to keep a better eye on DD, especially when interacting with this girl, which satisfied us then.

A couple of weeks later DD told us that her teacher (who had kept her promise) had witnessed a nasty comment and reprimanded the girl. From then on DD didn't complain to us anymore and we assumed (very wrongly) that it had just taken a sharp word to sort the girl out. DH and I know now that this was very naïve, please don't flame me for our past handling of this because I want to focus on what's currently going on.

What essentially happened is the girl became very sneaky in the way that she would make these comments, and make them privately to DD when teachers and other classmates wouldn't hear them. She also repeatedly told DD, "nobody likes a tell-tale" etc. as well as other people in the class, which created a culture within their year group as hating "snitching". It caused problems for other students as well but mainly DD, who was very anxious/sensitive and so stopped telling us when the girl made remarks. She also did things like conditionally allowing DD to sit or play with her, based on her "behaviour" that day, so DD was desperate for her approval.

Over the years these comments escalated massively from nasty to absolutely vile. They brought me to tears the first time I heard them. DD went through a period of anxiety, paranoia and just self-hatred over Years 4 & 5, and part of Year 6, but wouldn't tell us where it wasn't coming from. Then one day a boy overheard her talking to my DD. He was upset by the comments and told his father, who reported it to the school and they "investigated further" but not much was done. Until this girl's mother marched up to my DD in the playground and very loudly asked her "why are you making up lies about [her daughter]?" DD said she wasn't telling lies, not even assertively, it was more like a plead, and then the mother began screaming and raging, shouting abuse. She actually looked unhinged. My very anxious and sensitive DD burst into tears and after that the school took it much more seriously.

It turned out that as well as the absolutely vile remarks (which I still don't know where she got, they were repulsive), the girl was doing things like ruining DD's clothes and hiding her things in the classroom. This was about four weeks before the end of term before it came to light, so while the school kept them separated and monitored (and made the girl apologise ), not much was done as they were leaving, to different schools. DD hasn't had contact with this girl since but it still took her years and counselling sessions at her new school to be open about her emotions and say when something bothered her. Her anxiety/paranoia lessened some years ago but has got worse Year 11.

A week ago this girl sent a friend request on Instagram. Neither DH nor I were happy about this at all, but DD looked very happy with it. It just reminded me of little her overjoyed that she was allowing DD to play with her today But DD very much wanted to do it - said they hadn't had any contact in 5 years, it was just seeing each others photos, she wanted to put it behind her etc. etc. We agreed but on the condition that DD told us anything that happened and if it began making her anxious/uncomfortable she was to block the girl straight away.

Two days ago DD posted a photo and the girl commented "hmm." DD immediately became very anxious about it, and eventually took the photo down because it upset her so much. DH and I said she was to block the girl and DD agreed it would be best for her.

This evening a girl that was in their class sent DD a screenshot. A girl had posted a silly mugshot of herself and the girl had commented "you look like [DD]". Another friend that DD used to school with commented that it was unkind, which helped a little, but DD was still horrendously upset She hates the idea of this girl making comments about her and is worried it means people won't like her anymore! She talks to literally the one girl who defended her, but is still upset at the thought that they wouldn't like her. It's awful and I don't want this nightmare back in our lives.

DH says DD should make it clear to the friend that DD doesn't want or need any more screenshots, and DD needs some help (possibly professional) at literally just forgetting this nasty girl. We had a nice spa day together to take her mind off of it, DH made her favourite dinner for tea and now she's watching a bit of TV with DS before bed. She seems a lot happier but the more I think about it I want some actual action taken. I'm just so upset on her behalf and don't want this to escalate again.

AIBU to want to do more than simply remove this girl from DD's life? I don't want to make it into something bigger than it is and stress DD out, and I don't know what we could even do. I'm not sure if I'm just out for petty revenge or punishment for this girl because at this point I've lost any objectivity, but the more I think about it the more I want something more to be done.

I think the new episodes are not very significant to me (obviously the backstory is horrendous). If this wasn't this particular girl, do you think she would have been affected so deeply? Do you still speak about this girl and how much affect she is had on her? Would it be better (for your DD) just to feel sorry for her/that she is a bit sad/probably not a good friend to anyone? She is not someone powerful, just someone you would want to avoid?

I don't think you can punish this girl in any effective way, anything I can think of, would just means it is ongoing for your daughter.

I think remove her from DD's life and focus on resilience, is she working over the summer? What about something that would be in contact with people and get a bit more used to being assertive? Traveling? Something that would take her out of "comfort zone"?

When you wrote about the spa day and make her tea and TV, I did wonder if you are allowing her to be quite passive (protected) in all this. I am probably getting this all wrong, I have no teenagers.

MrsTerryPratchett 16 is old enough to know better.

Are they likely to end up at 6th form or on nights out together?

No. DD is considering two grammar sixth forms and I know the other girls family are very anti-grammar at least after she failed the test. I don't think she's considering grammar sixth forms.

Nights out they do have mutual acquaintances, I guess, but the only friend DD has that the other girl has doesn't really spend time with the other girl. Similarly, DD is quite disconnected from the vast majority of the primary school girls.

If this wasn't this particular girl, do you think she would have been affected so deeply?

Definitely not. Obviously, since then, she has had situations similar to this where people have made slightly nasty comments - because, as I said, the ones on Instagram aren't that serious - and she's dealt with it fine. They make her a bit more anxious than perhaps most people, but not like this.

Would it be better (for your DD) just to feel sorry for her/that she is a bit sad/probably not a good friend to anyone? She is not someone powerful, just someone you would want to avoid?

DD spent a lot of time with her counsellor ensuring it was cemented that this girl had no real power over her. But the bullying has caused DD so much internal upset that the girl does have power in a way, the power to distress her so much just by a single comment or a "hmm."

When you wrote about the spa day and make her tea and TV, I did wonder if you are allowing her to be quite passive (protected) in all this.

Possibly - she was so distressed that we just wanted to take her mind off of it.

She has applied for (and got) a job but it's only available from September, so we've been talking about getting her volunteering over Summer.

I think that the problem with going to the police is not only a lot of stress for DD, but that her recent comments are only really meaningful within context

I think keeping an eye on it in case it escalates and keeping screenshots is best, but there's not really a way to do this without exposing DD to the comments as well.

@MrsTerryPratchett I called her remarks vile - which they absolutely were. I can understand that you might want a sixteen year old to be protected from nasty words, just as I wanted my, much younger child to be, but at sixteen you're old enough to know bad behaviour inspires reactions.

Perhaps doesn't make it right, but I'm looking for advice, not nitpicking about other posters' language.

There's nothing to escalate at this stage. A 'hmm' comment and 'you look like DD' is not harassment.

Think DD needs to block her and any mutual friends. Is she still having counselling? It's unusual to care about someone who subjected you to a protracted bullying in school. You need to focus on bolstering DD, and not on the bully.

Agree with MrsTerry, the girl is a bully, let's call her such and not fucker, bitch.

From the bully's mum's reaction, it's clear she's from a dysfunctional family herself. Screaming abuse and raging. What a family life. And OP herself said the woman looked unhinged.

None of this is your DD's problem. Block her on everything and all mutual friends.

Why would you not just advise her to block her and have no contact with her? Seems completely obvious to me! Online people are not different to real life people, if you like someone you see them, if you don't , you don't. Why are you encouraging her to stay in touch with this girl? When she got back in touch You should have explained that she was horrible to her before, it's unlikely she's changed, so don't be in contact with her, either online or in person....

Think DD needs to block her and any mutual friends.

I'd want DD to do this if it wasn't for the one nice girl. But I daresay she can block all the others, especially the girl who sent her the screenshots probably to stir if nothing else

From the bully's mum's reaction, it's clear she's from a dysfunctional family herself. Screaming abuse and raging. What a family life. And OP herself said the woman looked unhinged.

Yes, when we were dealing with it at primary the woman was absolutely awful, as was her husband. I felt a little sorry for the bully because it was clear where some of her behaviours came from.

DH didn't feel sorry at all, even at the time, and I guess after seeing how much it has impacted DD, so many years later when she's so many years older, I'm losing sympathy too.

Why are you encouraging her to stay in touch with this girl? When she got back in touch You should have explained that she was horrible to her before, it's unlikely she's changed, so don't be in contact with her, either online or in person....

I know it was silly of me - like I said in my OP, DD really wanted to and made a big case for it. We didn't want to make it bigger than it was and imply that the bully was more important than she really is, so agreed to allow it on conditions.

Now I've seen DD's reactions to her I know she absolutely wasn't ready for this.

It's unusual to care about someone who subjected you to a protracted bullying in school.

I've just seen this comment; was DD's reaction very unusual?

If so maybe we'll look at professional counselling. We were considering it but if she's still more involved with this girl than she should be, I think we might have to.

Hi,

Any suggestions from anybody on the thread?

DD was very anxious during the night and threw up. It's been a long time since she's actually been unsettled enough to be sick.

I think she will definitely need further counselling, but more importantly I do want to monitor the situation.

Does anybody have any ideas for how to check if she's making more comments about my DD? The only problem is I don't want DD to see them.

I don't think your DD's reaction is particularly unusual in that it does destroy you when you're bullied. Im 32 and still struggle when I see some of the people I went to school with, even though as adults they're perfectly pleasant people.

I think it would be worth reminding your daughter that she has done 5 years of growing and changing since primary school and that you are proud of the person she's become. The girl that they are bullying doesn't exist in that iteration anymore, and neither should they be.

As for the bully, what kind of embarrassing sadact holds on to something for 5 years? Why is her life so empty that she needs to hold on to something so childish? It's pathetic and not worth your daughter's notice.

I think you need to work on her self esteem and resilience, I'm not quite sure how you'd do this though.

I think it would be worth reminding your daughter that she has done 5 years of growing and changing since primary school and that you are proud of the person she's become. The girl that they are bullying doesn't exist in that iteration anymore, and neither should they be

As for the bully, what kind of embarrassing sadact holds on to something for 5 years? Why is her life so empty that she needs to hold on to something so childish? It's pathetic and not worth your daughter's notice

Excellent Stuff, please let your DD know this OP. "embarrassing sadact" describes the bully perfectly.

I think you need to work on her self esteem and resilience, I'm not quite sure how you'd do this though.

Her school has been great. She did Jack Petchey and her Speaking Certificate and got a Distinction, and took a Drama GCSE. All the public speaking/performing has really helped her.

Her self esteem is better, but she still is very anxious about this girl not liking her, and that spreads to other relationships too, especially those from primary school. She struggles with believing she's actually important to people. The girl used to make her list off people she thought would miss her if she died and then provide "counterarguments" for every person.

I'm thinking counselling is the best option because she knows she is accomplished and good at things, her current issues go much deeper than that.

As for the bully, what kind of embarrassing sadact holds on to something for 5 years? Why is her life so empty that she needs to hold on to something so childish? It's pathetic and not worth your daughter's notice.

It is very strange that she's started this up again so many years later. Maybe she's just bored, or just that like you said her life is very empty and she's a very dissatisfied and unfulfilled person.

I'd normally feel bad for someone like that but I can't bring myself to after all the damage that's been done.

I wouldn’t waste your energy feeling bad fir this bully, it is undeserved. From the description it sounds as though this girl has some real issues and I would be extremely nervous to have her back in your daughter’s life in any way. Unfortunately some people attract bullying types throughout their lifetime through absolutely no fault of their own and your daughter needs to learn how to focus on the one opinion of herself that actually matters..her own.

I wouldn’t waste your energy feeling bad fir this bully, it is undeserved. From the description it sounds as though this girl has some real issues and I would be extremely nervous to have her back in your daughter’s life in any way.

I'm losing sympathy for her by the minute! I feel a little bit bad for her home situation but at the age of 16 (and even 11) she has been exposed to morals from others that she should be exhibiting, rather than following on from her previous behaviour.

I definitely don't want her back in DD's life, especially after her throwing up this morning Her behaviour was so absolutely awful and sneaky and manipulative, I can't have it escalating again.

Unfortunately some people attract bullying types throughout their lifetime through absolutely no fault of their own and your daughter needs to learn how to focus on the one opinion of herself that actually matters..her own.

I was reading that it becomes a cycle... the first bully leaves the person fragile and sensitive, an easy target for future bullies, and so they are more likely to be picked on. And then it just carries on and on and on...

I can't let that happen to DD. But seeing how the other girls behaviour escalated before (because I wasn't adequately monitoring the situation) I have to keep an eye on what follows her recent behaviour.

I think there is probably a lot of truth to what you read in that it becomes a cycle and a person is left vulnerable to subsequent bullying later on in life. I have certainly experienced similar myself and have often been left wondering how these people manage to find me! I think as you have suggested already that counselling may help your daughter as well as doing whatever you can to boost her feelings of empowerment in these types of situations. Easier said than done as maybe this will only come with age. You sound like a great mum, good luck 😊

Thank you very much DH and I have agreed we need to get DD some counselling but I'm not sure how she'll react to the suggestion.

I also want to check that she isn't saying anything else about my DD. Are there any suggestions on this front?

roseandflowers1 what could you do about it if you discovered she is talking about your DD? I think you should both just ignore it, unhelpful as that sounds. This girl is obsessed and you just don't need it in your lives. Focus on building up your daughter's self esteem, and ensuring she is surrounded by positivity.

I know, it's silly but on some level I'm actual

*actually worried, last time her comments escalated to such a degree that I'm worried this will happen again. Trust me, if they get to the point like they were in the later years I could definitely contact the police if they were online.

But more importantly she was so sly about it last time - I worry that she might put the sneakiness to a less obvious use. At primary school she disrupted DD's friendships very frequently and with a level of manipulation quite scary on such a young child.

I know that this is just speculation, but she's so sly and cunning and downright nasty, if she has decided to go for DD again I worry about the damage she could do. I don't think I could forgive myself letting it happen a second time.

I pressed Enter by accident, sorry

Yes, it sounds like professional counselling for your DD would be a good idea. The gteenage years are when mental health problems often first show themselves and if your daughter may be prone to anxiety, for instance, she could learn skills to manage it now which will be helpful throughout her life. Anxiety management techniques I learned at that age have helped me in many situations.

I think you should seriously consider getting your DD off Instagram. She is vulnerable, and you and she have the option to just take this out of her life.

I'm not sure that attempting to monitor the bully's online activity is a good idea. It may reinforce to your daughter the importance of this person, rather than building up your DD's coping skills. Nothing that's been done so far is actionable. There is a very good argument for getting your DD off Instagram, Facebook and Snapchat etc. Some kids can use these things and be fine, but your DD is vulnerable at the moment and it sounds like she doesn't need this in her life. Maybe you could suggest a social media break for a month or more, at least until you have some counselling sorted and can discuss it with the counsellor.

I think you've had some good advice up-thread. Keep her busy, develop other interests, push her out of her comfort zone, and help her realise that life is a lot bigger than this. Residential adventure summer school for a week maybe? Volunteering? But whatever you do, don't let her spend 6 weeks navel-gazing and consuming social media.