Page 4 | Sarah Sanders (Press sec for Trump) asked to leave a restaurant

Bingpot · 2018-06-24T18:34:54+00:00

Just wanted to gather thoughts on this one as I'm not sure what I think. Sarah Sanders is Trump's press secretary. She was politely asked to leave a restaurant over the weekend, following a staff vote (ostensibly in protest over the recent news over the Trump administration's treatment of immigrants). Any thoughts?

TheHulksPurplePanties · 26/06/2018 09:23

I think liberalism is in part losing ground because of these types of dramas; conservatives inevitably seize upon them and the left falls even further back.

I'm of the opposite opinion. I think liberals have lost ground because we stopped using these tactics. The civil rights movement, the Vietnam war protests, the vote for women, LGBT rights, these things weren't won by "taking the higher ground" and letting conservatives walk all over us, they were achieved by marches, sit-ins, protests, etc. We used to get into people's faces to make change happen. We can't keep being bullied.

longwayoff · 26/06/2018 09:34

Agree hulk. Creeping fascism. We have to oppose it loudly and be seen to do so.

siwel123 · 26/06/2018 10:07

I said you're confused on the case.
Yes in Belfast the bakery was told they and to make the cake.
But in the usa they were told it's ok to refuse service to gay people.

siwel123 · 26/06/2018 10:12

So if it's ok for a bakery to refuse service because someone is gay surely it's ok to refuse service to someone for political views.

The servers didn't act like twats, they refused to serve someone that represents a sexist and misogynistic president who is treating immigrants poorly as well as attacking groups such as muslims

commonarewe · 26/06/2018 10:17

siwel123

Once you concede that it's ok to discriminate against someone for their job or their beliefs, watch the right take that idea and run with it. The left won't be the winners in that contest.

siwel123 · 26/06/2018 10:20

Precisely.
That's what I'm trying to get at.
Sanders and trump and shitty people co, decided it's ok to discriminate against people in their vote and online statements.
Yet its not OK for then to be discriminated against.

I don't condone discriminating against anyone as long as they're doing nothing wrong in your establishment. However until trump and co don't stop discrimating and attacking innocent people then they deserve all the discrimination they get

Loopytiles · 26/06/2018 10:22

Discrimination law only applies to specific categories, eg sex, race, nationality, sexuality.

It’s fine legally to discriminate against potential customers for other reasons.

In this case it was ethically sound IMO.

sugarPlumFairly · 26/06/2018 10:22

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Neolara · 26/06/2018 10:30

There was a very interesting discussion about this on the radio yesterday. One woman was arguing that even though Trump's policies are appalling, the consequences of it becoming OK to refuse to serve people you disagreed with would lead to all sorts of unintended consequences. Because we all think the Orange one is so awful, we think it's OK that someone in his team is asked to leave a restaurant. But how would we feel if people had refused to serve Obama or one of his team because they disagreed with one of their (socially liberal) policies. Would it become an opportunity to just serve up a plate of racism or bigotry on the sly. Her point was that in life, the rich and powerful usually win and if we allow people to be discriminated against (by allowing others to refuse to serve them), the people who are going to be most hurt are the ones who are most vulnerable in society. Which is sort of what is happening now - Trump tweets and the people who own the restaurant are being showered in hailstorm of abuse.

I thought she had a point.

TwoBlueShoes · 26/06/2018 10:42

But the point is, businesses are already refusing to serve people because they are black, gay, weird-looking, don’t fit in.

She wasn’t refused service because she’s a rebukican or because she works with Trump. She was refused service because she was complicit in this awful and inhumane treatment of families. She was complicit in the lies.

People need to learn that there are consequences to their actions. It’s pefectly ok to stand up for what you believe in.

In some cases a persons actions are so abhorrent that it just crosses a line. The reality is that without the public backlash and bad publicity this would still be happening.

TheHulksPurplePanties · 26/06/2018 10:42

She was "discriminated" against by the legal definition of the word. She wasn't asked to leave because of what she was perceived to be, but because of her ACTUAL public actions and opinions. That's not discrimination.

The slippery slope here is using the term discrimination in this case, because it trivializes people who are discriminated against for no other reason than their race, gender, age or sexual orientation.

TwoBlueShoes · 26/06/2018 10:46

I mean the policy would still be happening.

Don’t feel sorry for Sarah Sanders. Every day she chooses to stand up and lie to the American people. She has a choice.

TheClaws · 26/06/2018 11:33

I'm of the opposite opinion. I think liberals have lost ground because we stopped using these tactics. The civil rights movement, the Vietnam war protests, the vote for women, LGBT rights, these things weren't won by "taking the higher ground" and letting conservatives walk all over us

That isn’t what what I meant. Protest all you want; I support that. But don’t mirror conservative tactics of exclusion, discrimination and divisive speech and say it’s okay because they do it too.

TheHulksPurplePanties · 26/06/2018 11:40

But don’t mirror conservative tactics of exclusion, discrimination and divisive speech and say it’s okay because they do it too.

Asking someone to leave a restaurant because their very public opinions and behavior make the employees and other patrons uncomfortable and upset isn't exclusion, discrimination or divisive. It's good business sense, and morally upstanding.

commonarewe · 26/06/2018 11:41

But don’t mirror conservative tactics of exclusion, discrimination and divisive speech and say it’s okay because they do it too.

Quite. The "liberal" message would then be that exclusion and discrimination are absolutely fine as the left does it.

commonarewe · 26/06/2018 11:42

Asking someone to leave a restaurant because their very public opinions and behavior make the employees and other patrons uncomfortable and upset isn't exclusion, discrimination or divisive.

I can't wait for the right to start using that bonkers standard against you.

lljkk · 26/06/2018 11:49

RedHen: the staff didn't want to serve her. The owner listened to the justified discomfort of the staff.

TheHulksPurplePanties · 26/06/2018 11:51

I can't wait for the right to start using that bonkers standard against you

It's not a "bonkers standard" it's the legal definition of discrimination and upheld by the First Amendment.

IIIustriousIyIIlogical · 26/06/2018 11:57

Nonsense. Refusing service to somebody because they are part of an inhumane regime you find morally reprehensible is NOT the same as refusing service to somebody because of an innate characteristic they have no control over.

Really? What about a trait that your God says is a Blasphemy & should not be tolerated?

I think a Deity trumps a Politician any day....

Usernumbers1234 · 26/06/2018 11:59

My goodness. Some concerning thought processes in here.

Trump is an idiot, his policies are abhorrent, but harassing people out of businesses in their day to day lives is the start of a slippery slope.

TheClaws · 26/06/2018 12:02

So ... if I have Tourette’s, and am in a restaurant and have some very obvious tics and sometimes blurt out loud swear words I can’t control, i can be kicked out if the other patrons are uncomfortable with my behaviour, Hulks? Under the First Amendment?

LeahJack · 26/06/2018 12:05

Asking someone to leave a restaurant because their very public opinions and behavior make the employees and other patrons uncomfortable and upset isn't exclusion, discrimination or divisive.

So, an awful lot of British people find the burqa or niqab upsetting and it makes them uncomfortable, are you a okay with them being asked to leave? Or how about Diane Abbott? She upsets a lot of people. Or Salman Rushdie? Or Malala? Or Nicola Sturgeon? Or any of the TERF posters on here? Or a transperson?

Of course you wouldn’t accept that, because what you actually mean is “as long as I also disapprove of the person being ejected then it’s fine”.

TheHulksPurplePanties · 26/06/2018 12:08

but harassing people out of businesses in their day to day lives is the start of a slippery slope.

She wasn't harassed, she was politely and privately asked to leave because her presence was upsetting the employees and customers, some of whom are being discriminated (correct definition of the word in this case) by policies she upholds.

Would people disagree with a Jewish restaurant owner asking Heinrich Himmler to leave his café in Warsaw in 1938. Or how about an African American restaurant owner asking Bull Conner to leave his restaurant in Birmingham, Alabama in 1963.

Or should those owners just have remained quiet and waited for the police, dogs, the SS & the Klan to finally shut them down.

TheHulksPurplePanties · 26/06/2018 12:19

So ... if I have Tourette’s, and am in a restaurant and have some very obvious tics and sometimes blurt out loud swear words I can’t control, i can be kicked out if the other patrons are uncomfortable with my behaviour, Hulks? Under the First Amendment?

I don't think you understand what the First Amendment is... The first amendment says this:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

It's not the Americans with Disabilities Act, which prevents discrimination of employees & customers on the basis of disability.

However, that being said, there have been thousands of incidents where people with Tourettes/Autism/Aspbergers have been asked to leave restaurants/shops because of outbursts. I think most parents of children with these disorders would say it's a fairly regular occurrence.

TheHulksPurplePanties · 26/06/2018 12:25

"So, an awful lot of British people find the burqa or niqab upsetting and it makes them uncomfortable, are you a okay with them being asked to leave? Or how about Diane Abbott? She upsets a lot of people. Or Salman Rushdie? Or Malala? Or Nicola Sturgeon? Or any of the TERF posters on here? Or a transperson?"

Alright, now we're getting to discrimination vs. disagreement over beliefs.

Burqa & niqab - this is discrimination, as the person being asked to leave is being asked to leave because of a perception of their religion/beliefs, not because of anything they have actually said or done.

Diane Abbot - sure, as long as it's because of what she says/does, not because she's a woman/black.

Salman Rushdie - Absolutely. Again, as long as it's because of what he's said/done, not just cause he's of Persian decent.

Same with Nicola Sturgeon or anyone else who is considered a public figure.

TERF or trans, same as burka/niqab.