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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To challenge the CMS calculation

107 replies

UserWhatYouLike · 23/06/2018 08:28

Dp has 2 dc (14 and almost 16)

He was paying for them through the CSA but the case was closed due to switching to the CMS.

He’s received a new calculation from the CMS which is (roughly £100 a month) higher than before. He queried this and his ex has told the CMS that the dc don’t stay over at our house anymore. This isn’t true. They’re supposed to be with him Friday night one week and Saturday night the next, but being teenagers they pop their heads in and go straight back out with their friends. 9/10 they are sleeping over one or other of their friends houses on one of the nights but he is still responsible for them those nights.
The older one also has a babysitting job so depending on if they have a job that weekend is whether or not they turn up.

He normally pays the amount the CSA suggests plus half of uniforms/trips, pays their phone contracts and gives them £10 a week each. we also take them clothes/shoe shopping twice a year and get the majority of what they need.

We are not well off and are just about breaking even each month. This £100 will mean we will struggle. I have 2 teen DC (who spend the weekends in a similar way) and we have 2 toddler dc together.

The contact is court ordered but we’ve allowed the dc to choose to go out/stay with friends if they like. DP is loathe to make them stick exactly to the script as we will then have unhappy DC, plus it will be treating them different to my own DC which we’re conscious of not doing.

We are lucky(?) enough to all live within 5 minutes of each other so his DC often come here straight from school to hang out with my DC, or for dinner a few times a week (depending on what we’re having😂) so we do actually see them a lot more than I’ve suggested.

How do we handle this?

Does DP suck it up and pay the extra or should he challenge it and explain that they should be staying over but choose not to? Or should we enforce the court order and make them stay at ours/not let them go for sleepovers or babysit?

OP posts:
MintyT · 23/06/2018 10:36

I think your done your best and your home life sounds lovely and well adjusted . And I think twins balance you out. I would pay the extra 100 but say you are not in the position to help out in other ways such as clothes and uniform. The Mum is now getting more CM from you so she will have to put this towards those costs.

Original poster
UserWhatYouLike · 23/06/2018 10:40

They stay with us half of all holidays but she’s neglected to tell them that as well. She just put less than once a week. Dss actually stayed 5/6 weeks last summer (except for the week they went away) but it’s an odd situation as we literally live around the corner from their house (you can see their back garden from our house if you angle it right) so it’s always been quite relaxed. Me and dp have been together 8 years and have always had an amicable relationship with his ex and her partner so this has come out of the blue.

OP posts:
RedHelenB · 23/06/2018 10:41

So teenagers say they don't want overnights , new court order as their wishes will be listened to and you will still have to pay the 100 pound plus court fees.

Original poster
UserWhatYouLike · 23/06/2018 10:45

@mintyT that’s the thing, the money will have to come from somewhere and in all likeliness it will be phone contracts that will have to go - they’re nearly £60 a month, Which the dsc will be gutted about as they’ve had the numbers for years, since they started comp. then there could be bad feeling between the dc as my dc will have theirs still as their dad pays for them

OP posts:
HughGrantsHair · 23/06/2018 10:47

If they are going to friends on your partners nights all the time then challenge it. If they are going back to their mums some nights then you cannot provide the court order as evidence of overnight stays because it's not true.

I would start keeping a record of the nights they stay over, see what the average is over a few months and let CMS know. If they stay on average less than one night every single week of the year though, then he shouldn't get any reduction in child maintenance.

RedHelenB · 23/06/2018 10:52

So teenagers say they don't want overnights , new court order as their wishes will be listened to and you will still have to pay the 100 pound plus court fees.

BoxsetsAndPopcorn · 23/06/2018 11:54

So you are going to punish them by taking away their phone contracts whilst their dad has to support your two children, his four and you? How about he puts his children first, they were already in existence before everything else.

stayathomegardener · 23/06/2018 11:57

Jeeze it's not punishment to take away their phone contracts.
This is about money, it's quite simple op needs to save £100 extra if she has to pay the new amount.

So she could cut back on various things like food or clothing but mobile contracts at around £60 are a big obvious lump sum.

BoxsetsAndPopcorn · 23/06/2018 12:02

It is punishing them, her children are not giving anything up and neither is she. Who takes away from a child because they have to pay chid support?

NewtScamandersNaughtyNiffler · 23/06/2018 12:02

I think you should challenge it with the cms.

And I say that as a resident parent to 2 dc who's dad pays nothing for them.

Summerisdone · 23/06/2018 12:12

@SendintheArdwolves I wasn't saying anyone should be bowling over with gratitude because they don't have a crap father, but I was just meaning that from OP's post the guy doesn't seem like a bad father and quite a few of the earlier posts seemed to be implying he's not the best because he's only paying the minimum maintenance amount and has 'more kids than he can afford' and is now wanting to reduce that amount, he is in fact doing much more than just trying to pay minimum and I meant that that should be noted in all this rather than just zooming in on the fact he is now struggling to pay the new higher amount.

Willyoujustbequiet · 23/06/2018 12:13

But you're not having them. It's not a lie. Cm is about how much he has them, not how much she doesn't. You'll have been saving in expenses from when they are sleeping at their friends.

We all know CMS goes nowhere near covering the costs in reality. It's not the ex fault you got pregnant. She can appeal your challenge You may risk losing out more.

Original poster
UserWhatYouLike · 23/06/2018 13:29

Their dad doesn’t support my 2 elder children - me and their father do Hmm

I pay proportionality more into the household account as I’m paying costs for 4 children whereas he’s only paying for 2. My dc get the same from their dad as dsc get from theirs. If their dad had to cut back on extras to afford to live then it’s understandable.

If my dcs dad didn’t pay their contracts then they wouldn’t have them - simple as that. I don’t have a phone contract myself, just a payg.

And it’s not punishing them - to pay the extra £100 a month we’d have to cut back on non-essentials. First things to go are phones/sky/Apple Music etc

Anyway, He just telephoned the CMS and they were unaware that he has other children! (Because I’ve never claimed child support from him for them, they were not added to his original case) so it’s been recalculated to include the twins on a family based arrangement (I think) so looks like she’ll be entitled to less than she was before. He’ll still pay the amount he’s always paid but it means they can still have their phones.

OP posts:
ohreallyohreallyoh · 23/06/2018 13:37

Have you run it through the CMS Calulator? The CSA was an after tax calculation and the CMS is a pre tax calculation. There is a difference, regardless of the overnight issue.

MintyT · 23/06/2018 17:12

I'm pleased your sorted it out in a level headed way, btw I didn't mean take away the phones. I mean the other expenses- help towards clothes and uniforms, the extra monies the Mum was getting could be put towards these , but seems resolved now thankfully

Snappedandfarted2018 · 23/06/2018 18:45

That’s pretty shitty to include your twins so the amounts goes down Biscuit they don’t cost any less

Fattymcfaterson · 23/06/2018 18:54

That’s pretty shitty to include your twins so the amounts goes down biscuit they don’t cost any less

Yea, how unreasonable to just keep paying the same amount... Instead of more, plus making sure the teens still have phone contracts, because you know, you can't punish them like that.
Fuck the toddlers who need to actually eat.

Firesuit · 23/06/2018 19:03

Cm is about how much he has them, not how much she doesn't.

This is a really one-eyed response. It's obvious they only ask the question the way around they do because it's presumed they will be with the RP except when otherwise specified.

BoxsetsAndPopcorn · 23/06/2018 19:04

That’s pretty shitty to include your twins so the amounts goes down, they don’t cost any less

Sadly very very common though. The first family are seen as as a hinderence on family finances and parents are more than willing to cut support in favour of a second new family. Awful behaviour and there should be no reduction allowed.

Original poster
UserWhatYouLike · 23/06/2018 19:15

But he hasn’t cut support. He’s always paid, even when we were at the point of almost having to sell the house we made sure the maintenance was paid first. He’s not an arsehole that’s just dumped his kids for a new family. She left to be with another man and took them away from him. He spent thousands going through court to get to see them, it was sorted out and he and his ex, despite what she put him through, have an amicable relationship. Should he then have to not have a family life? Why not? She has another child but he can’t have any more? Why is he not entitled to be part of a family again?

I really hope none of you ever are in the position where your whole security is swept out from under your feet.

OP posts:
MismatchedStripySocks · 23/06/2018 19:18

Definitely challenge it and ask for a variation. She is being very sly here and manipulating the system because technically they sometimes don’t stay at yours but they aren’t at hers either. You are responsible for them and that’s what needs to be explained. If it comes to it, the kids may have to lose the pocket money if you can’t buy essentials though. She will then get the moaning from them re wanting money.

SpikeyPineapple · 23/06/2018 19:27

That’s pretty shitty to include your twins so the amounts goes down

Including actual real life children that need to eat! Are you for real?

HellenaHandbasket · 23/06/2018 19:28

To be fair if she wants to be letter of the law with the CMS calcs by haggling over overnights then it is only right that the CMS have all the facts. Why is it only right when she does it?

NeverTwerkNaked · 23/06/2018 19:47

I’m pleased it’s probably been resolved. But in choosing to have more children you must surely have anticipated that the existing children might choose to spend less time with you?
Hi have two DSC and two DC and it is quite clear to me that if DP and I decided we wanted to have children together then it would have a big impact on the existing children’s lives (financially, in terms of space, etc)

Snappedandfarted2018 · 23/06/2018 19:47

Out of interest op how much does your dp pay? He pays the MINIMUM and now that’s been reduced to accommodate your new dc!