Germphobia is a class thing, isn't it?

[tenbob]

Full disclosure: I'm slightly fascinated by the posters here who won't wash their hands on a towel at someone else's house, buy cakes at a school fair or use a public toilet for fear of germs, and admit to being the sort of person who eats stuff past the sell-by date if it passes the sniff test

But I've just spent a couple of days working at a food fair type thing and noticed a definite class divide in germ tolerance

There was no end of stereotypical posh families who would share their ice cream with the Labrador, eat food that had fallen on the floor etc

And the mums (it was always the mums) who were obsessively wet wiping everything were non-posh

Can you prove or debunk my theory?
And if I'm right, why are the upper classes so relaxed about dirt?

Interesting post. I wonder how many here are actually posh/upper class because just seems so far from my reality. I've been working for really posh people - think about £10 million pounds houses in London, celebrities, footballers and their mansions were pristine, luxury goods and clothes specially cleaned, iron and organised. Different scents for each room, baths cleaned daily. The women used to amaze me by having amazing teeth, hair. I don't know where this idea of grim rich people comes from. I mean real riches not someone who "looks like" posh just because is wearing some beige colours with a leather bag. Or someone who has horses.

I'm not rich or even middle class btw.

OP, this is so true.

Working classes are obsessed with cleaning, competitive wet wiping, etc. ‘‘Tis very naff.

Of course it's every persons right to live as they wish. But it never fails to amaze me that people wash all clothes after one wash, that I find very strange. And buying new outfits as the seasons change, again would never occur to me to do that.

Shows how different people really are.

Interesting. Dh claims that I am verr, verr posh and I am quite scruffy, don't mind dirt and germs and am rubbish at cleaning. On the other hand, I HATE rats... but maybe that's because I grew up in a posh house with rats?

@leggylavender - those people aren't 'posh'. They are wealthy. footballers and celebrities are 'new money' and therefore not 'posh' AKA upper class. But they have aspirations...

I say that as someone who was brought up by vair old money parents. They are the epitome of 'old money', inherited wealth, scruffy as they come. Not in the least bit concerned about appearances. DH is the other end of the social spectrum. His mother visibly disapproves of my household standards, which are waaaayyy higher than my mothers, just not pristine, dust free, matchy matchy, clean everything daily standard.

I don't know where this idea of grim rich people comes from.

Ah you’ve confused money with class.

Footballers and the like are not posh, merely wealthy.

Very interesting...

I can Definately see this.. but never understood the explanation aside from feeling that older generation had to create stories to freak out their kids from germs because they were worried about them getting in contact with things that posher people didn’t have to worry about ...

Meat from not good butchers, friends who come from neglectful homes and so don’t know basic hygeine, clothing could not be washed too many times as to not damage it so they had to be careful to not ruin it .... list goes on

So probably the poorer people grew a bit more phobic of germs because their parents felt they were protecting them this way...

Fair point not comparing "posh" and "wealthy". But do you guys really think that let's say members of the royal family are scruffy with rats and dirt around their household/palaces? My family is very scruffy and poor. Our house was a tip and I remember feeling embarrassed when my DP went there for the first time. Maybe I'm posh then?

The royal family has people to clean up after them. "To posh to wash" is a thing.

I disagree, I have a full time nanny, full time housekeeper and full grounds staff for my home and although I happily will give our dogs ice cream, I won't touch food that is displayed without protective covers, nor will I share a spoon or drink from a glass that others have (outside of immediate family DH kids etc) I think it is all to do with life experiences or exposure. Working in the medical and pharmaceutical field I have seen the consequences (death, disabling illness etc) of bad hygeine so yes I am a slight germaphobe. And yes it is s we'll know fact that most people don't wash their hands after using the restroom. Enough said.

I was born into a middle class family and married a middle class man. I would hand down uniforms, but I can only hand down jumpers, as my youngest are a boy and a girl. I haven't been able to hand down anything yet, as DD's still wearing the jumpers she wore when they changed the uniform 2 years ago.

Sorry, married a working class man.

Thinking further about this most of our friends, neighbours, DC's friends are posh. I cannot think of a single family who is a bit grubby except for one and I think the mother may have MH problems.

MIL's family (and they were originally working class) are a bit grubby.

Therefore I disagree. I do however agree that many of the families we know have others cleaning and gardening.

Terry Pratchett had a great take on this... Cockbill Street m, where Sam Vîmes was born and raised, was desperately wc. But every women there, including his old mum, scrubbed the front door steps daily and kept the house immaculate because «even if you didn’t have much, you had to have standards!». Then he meets Sybil Ramkin and her ancestral pile which is filthy, dragons & dogs everywhere, and she doesn’t give a stuff about cleaning.

He nailed what you are talking about, OP, as he always did.

My Indian grandparents were very hot on hygiene, DM thinks it's because bacteria spread/food goes off more quickly in hot climates. And they had lost siblings to disease/illness.

Both my dad's side and IL's come from farming/rural poor back grounds there's very much the attitude of 'eat a peck of dirt before you die', untidy, cluttered but not too filthy living.

My grandma was definitely working class and had no fear of dirt / eating food past it’s sell by etc. Her house was clean, but she didn’t care if food apples had dropped on the ground outside. She’d gather them up and cook them in a pie! She lived till her mid nineties and was very healthy so 🤷‍♀️ Meh.

My dad is also working class and is the same.

I know one minor aristocrat and a very, very wealthy man who was at university with my best friend and was his other best friend. They both had staff, the second one had a lot of staff all over the world. Both of them had filthy toilets. So much so that I remember it still! Think they weren’t used to having to clean for themselves maybe?

I’m in the middle. Lower middle class I guess, (daughter of a quite successful surgeon and a nurse), and I’m not super clean, but I really don’t like tummy bugs and will scrub hands etc.

My husband is similar in class and cleanliness.

I clean my house before people visit - because eating and drinking in a less than clean house is not nice for anyone. I expect most of my friends do this except one, whose house is filthy, incredibly cluttered and untidy and I will not eat anything there beyond a black coffee, lovely woman but her house makes me itch.

I should say that my dad is very hygiene conscious at work! Just not with food at home.

Simple aesthetics of ramshackle large period houses v small badly designed modern houses is key.

Huge old homes all scruffy and battered still look great. We’d all love that. It suits them.

I’ve come from a mixed background of wealth/ poverty and types of houses. I’m naturally very untidy but my minuscule rented modern new build (which couldn’t accommodate lovely old inherited furniture) actually looks terrible if it’s untidy. The only way to make my home pleasant to be in is to try and keep it clean and neat.

ellie73
Are you in the UK/British? Your use of 'restroom' stood out...

A few posters seem to think I mean posh=dirty/messy
I think you can still be clean and tidy without being hygiene obsessed.
Like the poster who said they would think nothing of eating lunch after riding their horses without needing to wash their hands in between
Or having dogs on the bed, or sharing a fork with someone else

It's just a more relaxed attitude to germs and hygiene, compared to some people who appear to live in a state of permanent angst about the threat posed by towels and cakes

leggy
I don't think you should confuse rich with posh..!
The two aren't the same.
You can be rich and tacky (footballers wives', Russian oligarchs) and posh and broke (big country house but can't afford to run the heating)
£10m London houses are almost all going to be bought by new money ime
Old money will already have the £5m house in the family that needs a back to brick refurb to make it a £10m house

LadyFilthPacquet, yes, it was the Filth-Packets!

As for dogs and dishes, I once wrote a lighthearted letter to the Times after some miserable git had written in saying that dogs were vermin. I pointed out their unsung useful functions, including the pre wash of roasting tins, etc.
It was in the days when they published your address, and I had many us-too replies (not even one Disgusted of Dorking) including one from a lovely old chap who said his Jack Russell would actually get into the bottom rack of the dishwasher for a really thorough pre wash. He wrote on and off for quite a while with tales of his JR.

I think it’s a rural v urban thing rather than class, and yes old houses - it’s impossible to achieve modern levels of cleanliness when the walls (and ceilings 😱) are literally crumbling hair and fuck knows what everywhere, uneven stone or brick floors that are just set into dirt and sooty fireplaces- that’s all before various non human animals do their part to spread more germs everywhere.

@ReggaetonLente - I’m surprised you’re surprised. 10+ years ago, I worked in Private and Public Law Children Act proceedings, and LAs were notorious for issuing proceedings at the drop of a hat; paying lip service to the idea of working with and supporting families, but twin-tracking to adoption - especially when there was a surfeit of potential adopters. Come 2008, of course, when it started to cost five grand just to issue, the number of applications dropped like a bloody stone. Obviously, drying pants on radiators wasn’t the trigger, but it was noted in reports as a reason why they weren’t providing ‘good enough’ parenting. That report, btw, was so appallingly written that I shudder to think what sort of third-rate poly awarded her her diploma. I came to know the woman later, as an indirect result of my background. She wasn’t a client. I also knew of a non-English couple who were written up for feeding their child a breakfast foodstuff very very common in their home country, and certainly better than a pop tart or bowl of Frosties - but apparently that was strictly verboten. Interestingly, by 2010, a family who kept exotic pets in a one-bed flat (which terrified the children, bit and scratched them, and in fact caused one of them to contract a zoonotic disease) were given about half a dozen chances to give those up. In the end, they agreed, so the SW could write a self-congratulatory and triumphant report about how the family had shown a willingness to engage with multiple agencies, and had been prepared to educate themselves about why it might not be a good idea to have a home teeming with this creepy shit: only a very small mention was made of the hundreds of pounds given to the parents in exchange for suddenly becoming so enlightened. I’m sure it was merely coincidence that my friend’s kids, at the time when SS became involved, were exceptionally beautiful blonde blue-eyed girls under five, whereas no one on earth could have been induced to take the kids from the House of Horrors if they came with their weight in gold ingots and a vacation home in Aruba. (My friend kept her kids, btw. Happily, the judge saw straight through that particular SS shitshow).