To think the biggest threat to my parenting is screens?

[FWBcomplexity]

I know. It's a dramatic title. But I spend a ridiculous amount of thought, planning, energy and worry around the iPad and the Xbox. I want it to end. I need it to end.

I have bought a box, with a lid and a 12 hour padlock in my quest to get this issue under control. I turn off the wifi at 9pm. I deal with crap parenting day in, day out in my job. I know about rules, boundaries, consequences, the kindness of saying no, nurturing, attachment blah blah blah. But I'm still not getting it right.

Still Roblox and fucking Fortnite are a daily negotiation so complex it makes Brexit look smooth. An outright ban seems archaic but is that the only route? Does anyone else find their generally lovely kids turn into demonic, screaming, slightly unhinged weirdos after? It effects their sleep, eating, concentration, mood if I let them, I genuinely think they'd never stop. AIBU to feel like screens are the one bit of parenting that I can't get right?

And here I am, laid in bed, stressing about screens. Whilst posting on my phone

It's at secondary it kicks in hardest here- bc they chat to friends on the ps4 (friends are too far away to meet up). Then an hour plus watching videos on phone, which he needs to have access to whatsapp about homework...Either I give up controlling it, or our whole relationship becomes about screen negotiations.

I think some kids are better at self-regulation than others. Some kids will cope fine with being told to turn it off and others will completely melt-down. That’s why the “just turn it off advice isn’t always very helpful.

I also work in a job where I see poor decision making and poor parenting reflect on children’s outcomes. I think it’s worth taking a step back to reflect on that though. You are your child’s parent not their teacher or social worker. You care and you are thinking carefully about the problem so you are doing your absolute best.

I like computers and games myself so I think the build a bridge activity sounds perfect. Engage and understand what it is which is so enjoyable about it for them.

Because I have 3 of them, I feel like I'm stretched between ensuring access for education/homework, being fair and acknowledging it is their downtime and responding to their individual attitudes to it.

If I just had one dc, who isn't that bothered and has a hobby (basically DS1) it would be as simple as 'Just stop, be firm' but sorting out 3DC's use is what I'm finding messy and complex.

Thanks passmethecrisps I do need to stop projecting what I see at work. You are right.

Mine are younger - 6 & 9. They are very limited in their use of screens, despite DH being a gamer himself.

Weekend mornings - iPad (shared) for about an hour max. Falling out means no more iPad.

Laptop for homework. Supervised internet use. Also for recipes, watching art tutorials etc.

No YouTube unless a specific search for something (ie not following links)

Minecraft or Mario with DH on PS4. Half hour max at weekends.

Obviously I don’t expect to be as controlling as this with teens, but I think it is appropriate usage for young children.

Ha, my oldest is also 15, and has taught himself to play guitar through youtube, he also researches things,about science.... yes he also games, but all in all seems balanced (he plays 3 instruments now)

My youngest is more addictive/obsesses by fortnite and youtube.

All in all they spend a lot of time on screens

I get them off to walk the dog/help me cook/wash up/do their sport but essentially they still spend a lot of time on their devices

I can hear them talking to friends and laughing on their headphones. It seems to be how teens communicate and have fun now.

Why do you feel the need to control so strictly?

My mum was very strict with me (1hr tv, and I did lots of secret reading. I read "too much" especially Bronte and Austen and apparently it would ruin my eyes ) I was not allowed to watch trash (mini pops, knight rider, baywatch) and really felt left out of conversation with my peers.

Just some musings

Why do screens bother you so much? It's modern life. Is "control" of your kids very important to you? Why? What bad thing would happen if your DS spent 2hrs on fortnite? You mention unhinged screaming etc, that is not normal/ok, I get that. Does he have any SN?

Feeling your pain op. Its all very well for people to say 'get rid of it all' but my oldest would literally think his life has ended if I did that!!!! My rule is that they must get outdoors and do something active every day and then I don't mind them going on the xbox. Most of our problems come from sharing issues - they apparently want an xbox one each...

That's why I don't want an outright ban. I don't want (particularly DS2 as he struggles with social interaction) left out of conversations.

I'm not sure why I'm so stressed about it. Probably two or three things going on. Their behaviour IS worse if left to their own devices, if my mum looks after them (and I'm so grateful she does!) after school, she lets them sit on them until I get home from work (so a good 2 hours) this is when I get them screaming and refusing to come to the table to eat their tea. Exact scenario last night.

Second, my ex-H was so violent that we've had to move area and I am constantly worrying that they disassociate through these games because they've experienced a lot of trauma (I am really scared about this) and I don't want Fortnite to encourage violence in DS2. I don't want him to be like his dad.

And thirdly lots of my cases are children who instead of being washed, fed, put to bed, parented are shoved up in their rooms, on a tablet/games console and left to it; because their parents for various reasons don't have capacity. It terrifies me to lean on screens.

So basically, my problems are all fear based

I think parents need to be realistic.

I think no technology at all is better than trying to enforce half an hour on the iPad or an hour on an Xbox. They would have only just got started. I know myself that half an hour on my phone just passes. For older children I would chill out a bit and let them have free time on it on weekends, around other activities of course.

OP, it sucks to have these fears!

My boys used to scream/be upset when I made them leave a game in the middle of it. I once switched the wifi off to make a point, and apparently that meant DS1 "left" the game and was banned for a week (by the game, not me) and in tears.

We have had lots of "social worker chats", and the solution we arrived at was: look, we have dinner every day at 6, and if a game lasts up to 45 minutes, this means not starting a new game after 5:15

They are a,bit older than yours (we made this "deal" when they were 12 and 14) but it has really worked.

Basically, they can play after school, as long as they are down for dinner at 6 without drama. Then it's clearing up, music and homework. Then after that is all done they can get back on the devices until around 8/9. No wifi after 9.

So they can easily spend 3-4 hours gaming a day, which seems a lot but outside MN, in the real world, this seems pretty normal?

Their school work is fine (just had their reports) and they seem happy and balanced (lots of interests outside gaming, sports matches at the WE)

Maybe I am too relaxed (by MN standards certainly!) ...

We are all just making it up as we go along.

Had quite a few chats with DC about my fear of these violent computer games, and they were at pains to put me at ease/explain what the game is about. Always good to keep talking.

They don't seem to get much screen time. Half an hour incorporated with homework? One evening a week for xbox? No wonder they're feeling a bit hard done by!

DS10 is allowed an hour xbox a day, when homework and other hobbies are done. On the weekend he's allowed 2 hours when he wakes up.

If he moans, he loses his Xbox time for the next day. No negotiation.

I don't understand what doesn't work about that. It's the same in class. Sometimes I let pupils play Minecraft during free time, sometimes they are allowed to use specific apps on the iPads. If they moan when they're taken away, they lose iPad priveliges for a week. They don't moan.

With regards to the amount of screen time this report by the AAP seems to suggest 1 - 1.5 hours a day is the maximum. I can't seem to find any definitive answer though, probably as they don't want to set a limit so as not to be seen to be "allowing" a certain amount of time.

pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/138/5/e20162593

As an avid gamer however I would, as pp's have suggested, "need" a block of at least 2 hours for some games, especially if they have an online multiplayer format. Some of the games I have played I have "needed" 4 hours to complete what I was doing at the time.
From what I know of Fortnite you could perhaps instead limit the number of games they can play in any one session. As a teenager I would be annoyed if I was told I had to stop playing mid-game and my friends were in the game and I was supposed to be helping them as part of their team.
Also bare in mind that watching a movie can take 2 hours + and that could also in some cases be considered as "family time".
I guess you have to decide what is would be considered reasonable in your household as everyone is different. Computers are a way of life in our house as we are both software developers and so are using screens an awful lot and many people would consider this unhealthy.
With regards to your DS2, I would say as long as he has out of computer hobbies or activities and is completing required school work I would potentially not worry so much. As a teenager and through uni I was pretty much addicted to gaming and spent actual years of my life in game time. I am now (in my own biased opinion) a well adjusted adult with a family who works as a health care professional whilst studying. I also made friends all across Europe from gaming, some of whom I am still close to many years later.

I think the average parent is far more relaxed about screens than this thread suggests.

I do get your point op and I think my dc are very moody when they come off a game and I do worry about them not being active enough but it’s a balance isn’t it. If you have all been out for the morning or they have played football or something, I would let them chill out for the rest of the day then.

Sometimes they do self-regulate. Dd will start playing with other things after a couple of hours and just uses the iPod for music. It depends on your child I suppose.

I love to play sims on our ps3, id sit and play all day if I wanted (and used to as a teen / early 20's) but now I exercise self control as I know more.

Kids don't have the ability to exercise the same level of self control as adults, that's why we have to set the rules.

Get a timer and set it for an hour, tell them if they don't turn it off after that hour is over then they lose their hour tomorrow.
None negotiable. Stick to it every day and they'll soon learn the guidelines.

Mine are 15 and 13. They would be on it all day if I allowed it. I keep it in the lounge so that I can control it and we only have one. If it isn’t the PS4 it is the phone, YouTube videos, or games on the computer.

We are a gaming house and I agree there's little point in restricting screens by time with games like Fortnite. The chances are they are playing with friends and can't just 'leave' as the this will leave team mates in the lurch and/or get them banned from the game temporarily. This only incites more rage! Far better to restrict to one or two 'rounds' or games rather than an arbitrary time limit.

Games are not like in my day when you saved where you were up to and went back to it later. Unfortunately.

Turning a console off in the middle of an online game is just cruel.

this only incites more rage
Does this seem a normal statement to people?

The biggest problem is that there are far too many ignorant whinyarses making 'screen time' too much of a big deal, setting petty rules that stem from a total lack of understanding, then trying to enforce unreasonable rules with increasing harshness.

Let your DC spend all their leisure time with their electronics, if they want to. None of this fucking about with twenty minutes a week and that's your lot. The first thing to understand about parenting is that leisure time is leisure time, which means doing what they want, not what you want, and not what you think they should be doing because of some shit you read online.
Sure, insist that homework and chores (if they have chores) get done, but otherwise, leave them to it.

this only incites more rage
Does this seem a normal statement to people?

As a gamer I understand this statement and can also understand the thinking behind it. Although I am not sure if a non gamer would find it to be "normal". You can become very invested in your games, especially if it is a team game and you are playing with friends. To some it is no different to being told you must stop playing in a football match immediately even though you are about to score.

The rules are often arbitrary. Every family just makes it up. What’s the point in half an hour a day? Why? Do you only spend half an hour on a screen per day?

I agree that it's a constant battle with some kids. One of mine likes to watch a couple of things on TV, some specific movies and isn't bothered about gaming at a. The other would do nothing other than game, watch dvds and YouTube given the choice. I parent them the same so you do have to factor in kids' individual temperaments. For my screen addict he is only allowed to game at the weekends.. Mostly because of the emotional fallout when he doesn't win.. The adrenalin spike in him is awful and produces really quite scary behaviour. He's limited to one particular game now (not an online one) for an hour or so each weekend day. He can watch tv etc for longer because that doesn't have the same impact on his mood but I am totally with the OP on the wearing nature of constant negotiation.. I don't change the rules but that doesn't stop the child from constantly asking and it does piss me off. You're not alone!

What I mean by that Mrskeats is that turning a game off, or a video, or a film, or snatching a book out a hand once a time limit is up (regardless or whether it is finished) is going to make anyone cross. It would me!

I'd certainly be cross if someone turned my console off when I was in the middle of a match. Same if someone took my food when I was eating, dragged me out of the cinema half way through a good film, turned the TV off during a program I was enjoying, pulled me out of the pool as I was halfway through a length.

Can people really not understand this?