How do you defend your toddlers from dogs not on leads?

[Flatearthersphere]

I have 3 children 3 and under, we often go to the park, on walks to different places, our local reservoir with a play area, picnics etc etc..
Anywsy all these areas say dogs should be on leads but they aren't I would say about 50 percent of the time, not exaggerating but just seems the norm round here.

Anyway I am guessing most people could pick up their toddler if a dog came bounding up to them but I have 3, usually 2 in the pushchair and one walking. I thought this would be OK but I was in a situation a few days ago which scared me.

I had 2 in the pushchair, an elderly woman had a big collie which bounded up to us, on one of those extendable leads and she just let it run up to us, I shouted "please pull your dog away" and picked up my eldest but she just said "don't be silly he's being friendly" and I said "I Dont care pull it away" but she refused and it jumped up into my pushchair and scratched all my sons legs even though I was trying to push it away because I was holding a child.

This isn't the first time I've been in this situation, even me and my husband have struggled when we've been holding hands with all 3 and there was a big pit bull cross or something which knocked one of our toddlers clean off his feet.

Genuinely, how do other people deal with these situations? I feel like I can't ever take the children out on my own and like we have to keep them in the pushchair all the time even if there is 2 of us. I'm finding I am avoiding going out now and it's getting depressing.

Those who are saying you are going to make your DC scared of dogs, better to be scared than hurt. I was so worried about not making my DC frightened of dogs that I did all the ‘oooh what a lovely dog, oh it’s just jumping up to say hello, oh don’t worry it’s just being friendly’ etc. Until one of my DC got really hurt and now they are all terrified.

I wish I had done what you are doing OP, better them to be a bit nervous of dogs than hurt. Even if you are ‘teaching them to be scared’ (which I don’t think you are), there will always be an opportunity at some point to get them used to dogs and not scared in a safe environment.

I dont think that children are taught to be scared of dogs though.
i think they learn that for themselves when as small children dogs taller than them knock them over, scratch them, take their ice creams or all of the above.
i didnt teach DD1 to be scared of dogs. A dog doing all of the above did that when she was 3. Instant turned her from happy go lucky go anywhere to worrying about dogs.

This not that helpful maybe but I joined a local botanical garden and the NT so as to have nice picnics/long walks with DC when they were littlie after DD2 was chased by an off lead akita and terrified. Many NT places only allow dogs in outer part of grounds

There's is no need to "defend" children because all you need is to ask the owner. Kicking, flapping and so one only make you feel as if you do the right thing and you don't.

Also, despite what you think of your reading skills, Susan, nowhere in my post do I say or imply I approve of children being knocked down or scared by dogs.

My toddler was knocked over by a dog running off the lead, not in the park but alleyway next to it.
Owner got an earful for not seeing where her dog was when she let it off.

He’s been terrified of dogs ever since.

I’ve had owners say “oh they’re friendly.” & I respond I don’t care, call back your dog now my son is scared.

I love dogs, I regularly look after 2 sets of neighbour’s dogs. But I would never let them run up around a child or anyone until that person has stated it’s okay.

Why should my son be terrified just because they can’t control their dog or call it back? If it was the other way around I bet they’d have something to say.

OP, no need to defend your children, it's not fire breaking dragons, stay calm and tell the owner to keep them away. The OP did stay calm and asked the owner to control her dog. The OP did have to defend her children as the dog was jumping in the pram and scratched her DC. Do you think she should have just let the dog do this without trying to stop it?

I’m sure you (and lots of other people) are responsible owners but not everyone is and there is just no way of knowing which are the dogs who will run past and which dogs will jump up and knock your DC over and/or scratch them.

My 16 month old was approached by a German shepherd and licked in the face the other day. We had stepped away and waited for him to pass. He was on a lead but it was too long. He did no harm but to my 16 month old (who has some experience with dogs) he was a fucking monster!! I tried to jolly him along with 'what a big doggy' but he was not himself for the rest of our walk. Inside I wanted to cry because I suffer with anxiety so I had alternative endings to that situation going through my head that weren't pretty. I'm very confident with dogs and would have dived straight in if I thought he was going to get nasty (the dog, not the toddler). My point is that had the dog wanted to he could have floored my DS before I knew what was happening and no amount of "cross your arms and turn around" is going to help at that age. Owners are responsible and even as a dog/animal lover I can assure you that any dog that tries it with my son will not come off well.

Chardonny

The point people are making, and I've had this issue too, is that some owners do not see an issue and won't call off their dog until it has scratched or pushed over the child.

Regardless of your intent, your tone was mocking and derisory. Have you ever experienced having your toddler hurt by a dog?

Erm my 3 year old ds is not scared of dogs because I have “taught him to be scared” he is scared of them because one too many dogs have jumped up at him in his pushchair and chased him on a footpath.

I don’t like to compare dogs to toddlers but I will in this situation. I adore my 3 year old but appreciate that many people don’t like children. I don’t allow him to run up to random people and dogs and hassle them under the pretence of “just being friendly”. Likewise, I don’t like dogs and don’t want them near my children.

We have dogs and DD is on quite confident with dogs, however I would still be furious if a dog were to jump up at her. She was in her pushchair the other day when a friendly dog jumped up and tried to lick the fruit she was eating. The owner just laughed. Not on.
She's normally walking and the most owners will call their dogs back. We are yet to have an incident where she has been knocked over by a strangers dog (our own, a few times and still distressing for her!)

We always call our dogs to heel when we see young children regardless of how friendly we think they are. It's not for us to judge. It's the parents call. If they shout "oh don't worry, he/she's fine with dogs" then great but we will still keep them to heel in case they get excited and inadvertently knock the child/children over.

I don't agree with having dogs on the lead the whole time but I do think you should be able to control your dog around others, children or no children. When DD was a baby I didn't let our own dogs lick her (at home or on a walk)... People would say I was being overprotective but frankly I know what they sniff and eat and I don't want my baby/child exposed to that, immune system boost or not! They've learnt now that they aren't to lick her and if they try she pushes them away.

No, I haven't had my toddler hurt by a dog.

But in the unlikely event a dog does threaten a child the best thing to do is what MissMouse suggested above. Not defending or flapping.

Just in the last yr 2 dogs have jumped up on me. Last weekend one approached quickly while we were eating sandwiches on a bench - its owners half a field away. Another came up to us and shook itself (after just being in the stream).
Dd2 is scared of dogs, i think it's from a dog sniffing her in her pushchair maybe a year ago. The kids literally cant get away. Who would want that?? It's honestly not ok. So now going past a dog on the cycle path or in the woods we get hysterical screams. It really isnt to do with the dog - it's all dogs. A not even 3yo cannot be reasoned with. So tbh it makes me very cross so many dog owners on this thread complaining that kids should get over it and not make such a fuss. - you dont get to decide that. Are you not irrationally scared of something? Spiders/heights? Want a giant spider approaching you while you are strapped in a pushchair? As other posters have explained some of these kids have been exposed to dogs frequently and still afraid, others have been attacked. It's not your right to force kids to get through that fear. And is likely to make the fear worse.
Seems like most of the kids have a reason they are afraid. Though have to say she also seems to be afraid of bees for no reason.
Tbh the most natural thing is to be afraid (wouldnt we be of a wolf/lion etc). We have all trained ourselves out of the fear.
Weve not shown fear of dogs. Though now i do say 'sit' i just dont want to be jumped on (often dirty paws). Or bees as we arent afraid.

Can all dogs be trained not to jump up? I assume so. Tbh i dont think they are intending to hurt necessarily when jumping up just sharpish claws and thin clothes.
But at least for me it's only up my leg as it's often small dogs. I really would not want to be leapt up on by a Rottweiler.
It's not hard to see it from a small child pov where they are smaller than the dog even without leaping up and much weaker.

I'd go against the water pistol dogs aren't often water fearing would make mine think you were playing

Are you for real Chardonnay?

Because I am not disagreeing with MissMouse's point. It is a good idea.

I'm taking issue with your total lack of understanding that some dog owners are crap and do not have control over their dogs.

It is too fucking late not to flap when the dog is already all over your child, without any warning I might add.

First you tried to present that parents were precious about dogs anywhere near their kids. Now you're trying to suggest that people just need to stand still. Because it is the fault of the victim to appease the dog. Not the bloody crap owner.

If you have a dog then they are your responsibility. Just as my toddler is my responsibility and I would never let them run wild.

If some dog owners tried to parent a child in the some way they indulge their dog then they'd be just a criticised and censured. Just because it's an animal doesn't give you free reign with it. It certainly doesn't with kids.

Ooh yay! A thread about dogs. We've not had one of those for ages.

(Opens popcorn and gets comfy - it could be a long night).

because it's on a lead wearing a muzzle and therefore must mean that it's a canine psychopath on a murder spree.

you are being deliberately obtuse, people are talking about dogs who are not on a lead, and go charging up to toddlers, small children and knock them over, or jump up at children in pushchairs, that is frightening for a toddler and a parent, most dogs are ok but not all are, a strange dog is an unknown quantity

But in the unlikely event a dog does threaten a child the best thing to do is what MissMouse suggested above. Not defending or flapping

If a dog threatens your child in a pram, you’ve GOT to defend the child haven’t you?! You can defend your child without ‘flapping’ though.
Saying there is no need to defend you child is just silly, in some (obviously not all) situations, if you don’t defend your child they will get hurt (or hurt worse,in the OPs case) if you don’t defend them from the dog.

I'd go against the water pistol dogs aren't often water fearing would make mine think you were playing

How about Jif lemon juice, stale piss in a squeezy bottle, cheap nasty cooking/olive oil also in a squeezy bottle or even highly peppered water?

I’m a dog owner, I love dogs and would never actually hurt one, unless in genuine self self defence. however after encountering twatty owners who won’t control their badly behaved dogs, I discovered that a jovial “Don’t worry! I’ll kick it if it gets any closer!” in response to their “Don’t worry, he won’t bite!” - as their Westie approaches snarling and snapping - works wonders.
I’ve had more grief from small dogs than I ever have from big ones, but all dogs should be on a lead in populated areas unless they have reliable recall. I’ve been nipped by “friendly” terriers on a couple of occasions, and quite badly scratched by larger friendly dogs jumping up on a number of occasions, not to mention the laddered tights and muddied clothes.
Totally unacceptable. Many dogs are the size of a pony relative to a small child, why wouldn’t they be frightened when a strange one bounds up barking?
SweetCheeks typifies the breed, they do dogs no favours. If my toddler escaped my attention and went up to a woman in a coffee shop and started talking to her, I wouldn’t just say “Oh she’s being friendly!” and leave her to it, It’s not her child, she doesn’t have to entertain her. Maybe she doesn’t like children or wants a coffee in peace. - and my daughter poses no possible physical threat.
I get so cross with owners who can’t see why the world doesn’t revolve around their “fur-baby” 🤮, or who don’t pick up their dog’s shit. I wish we still had dog licensing and people had to read and sign a commitment to basic tenets of responsible ownership.

My DD is an extreme case but I must say I’m shocked at how many people think it’s ok for dogs to jump up at anyone, let alone kids.

DD has severe respiratory problems, and one of her triggers can be dogs. Not all dogs, she is fine around many friends dogs. However not around others. And it’s not just that she gets sniffly or a small rash etc. If she comes into close contact, even for a short period of time with certain breeds of dog she goes into full respiratory arrest which can lead if not treated quick enough to CPR, and could cause death. Now a dog walking past her, or even sniffing her lightly isn’t going to cause his but inhaling skin particles, fur etc or being licked by a dog could. And she’s been jumped at many a time. One woman even had the nerve to tell me that if she is that bad she should be outdoors where dogs may be present! (The same woman also told me that it was my fault she has that reaction as I must not have let her be around dogs often enough).

In my view of people kept there dogs under control there would never be an issue. Why should she be stuck indoors all day because someone can’t keep a handle on their dog.

Steamtrain - you sound nice 😬

It annoys me. I’ve seen how supposedly ‘friendly’ dogs can turn suddenly and unexpectedly. My son was in the park once and a dog went for him.

Fuck that noise. Any dog that jumps up on small children needs a hard kick. Well actually the owner does.

I'd go against the water pistol dogs aren't often water fearing would make mine think you were playing

Not like we could use a real one. Or pepper spray...