How do you defend your toddlers from dogs not on leads?

[Flatearthersphere]

I have 3 children 3 and under, we often go to the park, on walks to different places, our local reservoir with a play area, picnics etc etc..
Anywsy all these areas say dogs should be on leads but they aren't I would say about 50 percent of the time, not exaggerating but just seems the norm round here.

Anyway I am guessing most people could pick up their toddler if a dog came bounding up to them but I have 3, usually 2 in the pushchair and one walking. I thought this would be OK but I was in a situation a few days ago which scared me.

I had 2 in the pushchair, an elderly woman had a big collie which bounded up to us, on one of those extendable leads and she just let it run up to us, I shouted "please pull your dog away" and picked up my eldest but she just said "don't be silly he's being friendly" and I said "I Dont care pull it away" but she refused and it jumped up into my pushchair and scratched all my sons legs even though I was trying to push it away because I was holding a child.

This isn't the first time I've been in this situation, even me and my husband have struggled when we've been holding hands with all 3 and there was a big pit bull cross or something which knocked one of our toddlers clean off his feet.

Genuinely, how do other people deal with these situations? I feel like I can't ever take the children out on my own and like we have to keep them in the pushchair all the time even if there is 2 of us. I'm finding I am avoiding going out now and it's getting depressing.

@Tambien haha I have this mental image of a scary child running towards you!

When will dog owners get that this is NOT Ok? If the owner came up, frightened a child, licked it in the face and potentially knocked it over and or scratched it, then the owner could ( and would ) be done for assault. If its not OK for a human to do it to another human then why is it considered ( by some arseholes) to be acceptable from an animal.

As a parent, I don’t know if your off-the-lead, out-of-control dog is safe and friendly around my toddler. In my experience safe and friendly dogs aren’t the ones who run up, owner not present, and assault my DS.

Remember also that your knee high little friend, is a stranger with big teeth who looks a 2 year old in the eye.

I don’t want a DC who is scared of dogs and have made an effort to socialise and train my DCs around them. Unfortunatly the elder one is now scared after too many close encounters in the park.

My dogs are under control, they have excellent recall and will come back when called...but I'm not going to call them and put their leads on if they're literally just walking along.
I'm actually qualified as a dog behaviourist but don't work in the field; I just use it for volunteering with the rescue groups I'm involved with.

What is the problem with children being scared or wary of a large animal bounding towards them , I’m an adult who isn’t keen on dogs , I was attacked by a dog as a child and I don’t want them near my children , it’s the owners concern to keep them under control , I don’t keep dogs of my own and my kids aren’t interested in them so why on earth should I care about hurting a dog owners feelings who can’t control their animal ?

I'm with you OP. Too many badly behaved owners and dogs.Two tips for fending them off. Carry a small umbrella that you can pop out in the face of any oncoming dog (aggressive or not). It'll surprise them enough to make them retreat/stop and gives you a shield.

Secondly, buy a can of compressed air from a pet store or online (it's branded as a training aid/deterrent). The sharp hiss of air is enough to startle the dog and it should give you a wide berth. The pros are that its completely harmless and you can use it before the dog is too close. I keep mine in my pocket to defend my own dog because he's a target for small, snappy 'furbabies' whose 'parents' get upset when he reacts badly to them mauling him(think biting face/belly and ripping). And I never walk her off - lead in public places like parks although small children do seem to like peting her; he's always under control.Pity I can't say the same for the 'fur-babies'.

It's highly unusual for owners of dangerous dogs or snappy ones to let them off the lead, especially in a park.

The dogs I see as most dangerous (staffie looking types owned as a status symbol trained to jump and bit rope/stick and hold body off ground) are always allowed off lead in parks and have zero recall.

I used to live in an area that had a number of dogs off leads, some with owners, some not. I don’t like unruly dogs, I did love my toddler. Teaspoon of pepper in a film canister with a lid. Rarely deployed, but very effective if my loud teacher voice failed to deter the dog.

if a parent is picking up their children, swinging their buggy in circles and generally being a massive drama llama then...

... the dog is going to think it's a game and get really excited and therefore harder to control. It may try and "catch" the buggy. It's a dog, it can't analyse your response and think "Ah, she's frightened and trying to get me to go away", it just sees something moving in an unusual fashion and thinks "fun", "game", "chase".

Running away is also like to make the dog chase, which is why a responsible dog owner would never play games that involve the dog chasing them.

Calm, quiet and still is always your best bet.

If you have the bottle, an assertive "Sit", said in a firm voice, will work on any dog that's had some training.

As will a few gravy bone biscuits kept in your pocket. Chuck them on the ground and the dog will lose all interest in your toddler and your buggy.

@SweetCheeks1980 no one is talking about dogs walking along minding their own business, they are talking about dogs jumping up on children and then the owners refusing to pull them back?? The OP has quite clearly stated there are signs up saying dogs need to be on a lead, so they should be. Your qualifications are utterly irrelevant here as you are blindly defending dog owners, suggesting that free roaming dogs have more rights than parents and their children. Your argument is watery at best. Not all dog owners are responsible and increasingly dogs are not trained well or at all. Dogs should not be jumping up on strangers or running full pelt at children

It sounds like you are really unlucky where you live. I'm a childminder and encounter lots of dogs when out and about but in 6 years of doing this (and more as a parent) I have never encountered this kind of behaviour from dog owners. There are loads off lead too but they never approach us. However, when we visit our relatives in the south east its a completely different ball game. We take the kids for a walk locally and there are loads of out of control dogs jumping up at us. It does my head in. The owners don't even acknowledge it, let alone attempt to call them back. In fact, often the owners are out of sight. My kids aren't scared of dogs as a general rule but it makes them nervous when we're there. Understandably so.

@Flatearthersphere
Water pistol is a terrible idea. My dog is kept under control but is young and lively. If you squirted him with a water pistol I think he would certainly bark and probably jump up at you and get agitated. The best thing to do is stay still, stay quiet and don't make eye contact. And fold arms up on your chest.
It is really important to teach children how to respond to dogs. There will always be irresponsible dog owners. Noise, shrieking and running will bait a dog even more.

There is a lot of chat about dangerous dogs. 2 of my most serious bits have been from border collies and a 3rd from a Wheaton terrier... none of which are considered to be dangerous. My DD was attacked by a Westhighland Terrier ffs... all dogs have the potential to harm. Sad but true.

Similar thread recently about this and seems like good owners = good dogs. What I don't understand is why owners aren't worried about letting their dogs annoy others. I saw a guy kick the shit out of a dog that had knocked over his toddler the other day. The owner had ignored the visibly upset child & refused to get dog under contorl. Don't get me wrong, not advocating hurting the dog, but aren't owners worried about this happening? This was a big dog and this guy really went for it, I suppose a different dog might have bitten him & that's the detterant?

@busybarbara

*What the fuck? Carry chocolate?
*
Chocolate is very toxic for dogs. You are horrible.

Dtds were fine around dogs until one bounded over to us - they were toddlers & in pushchair - they were fine, loopy big bugger knocked me clean off my feet! I'm not bothered by dogs, dtd 1 isn't either, dtd2, totally terrified.
I was sick to death of dog owners calling 'it's fine, he loves children' as their dog bounded towards us & dtd2 tried to climb up/over my shoulders to get away. Right up there with "does she want to stroke him?" as dtd2 attempts to scale/strangle me
Resorted to 'keep your dog from coming near & licking me & I'll attempt to stop my dc from doing same to you
I have dtds, now teens, one still not bothered, the other would throw herself into traffic to get away from dogs. Good to know about the folding arms thing, although I doubt she'd stay still long enough to test the theory. Maybe one day.

Ds gets upset by things that invade his space so if a dog looks like it is going to come right up to us I get between him and the dog and keep hold of him.
The "just being friendly" is annoying and also pointless said to a teenager who doesn't understand speech.

The dog that jumped at my son was friendly but it still scratched his face and scared him. Dog walker couldn't control it and didn't put its lead on even after it hurt my son. Doesn't matter if it's friendly if you can't control it it should be on a lead. My son did the right thing -stood still was quiet folded arms and turned his back but it was hyped up and going crazy and should have been put straight on the lead

Chocolate is very toxic for dogs. You are horrible.

If dog owners aren't going to take care and control of their dogs, I don't have to take care and control of the chocolate I have in my pocket to eat. They will get the message.

My dog would LOVE that! Not advisable as a deterrent I’d say as I can think of many a dog who loves a hose and a water pistol.

It would get my dog really excited and she would be jumping up and trying to bite the water.

The first time I put the sprinkler on the lawn (I had 2 dogs at the time), they ran round and round in circles trying to bite the water until they were absolutely shattered and soaking wet.

If I was a lazy fekker, I would never have needed to walk them again, they'd exercise themselves if I put the sprinkler on.

The remaining dog even tries to bite waves at the beach if she gets near enough. Stupid animal.

Anyway I shouldn’t have to think about how best to defend against unruly dogs they should be on a bloody lead , a lot of you dog owners seem to forget that

I think it’s awful when people allow their dogs to run over to children! Or anyone!

However I also dislike it when my dog is minding his own business in the general vicinity of a child (eg we are walking past, dog no where near) and the child starts screaming or getting excited. I have always been impressed seeing parents who handle dog situations calmly and cooly because it will make children nervous otherwise. However it shouldn’t have to come to that because people should control their dogs!

People thinking this doesn't happen - it so much depends where you live.

It doesn't happen where I live, but it does where my parents live. Some places seem inhabited by indulgent, incompetent dog owners who employ Sweetcheeks 's mantra that if you don't like muddy untrained dogs jumping up at you and your children, knocking your children flying and stealing food from children's hand this somehow makes you the failed human being.

If a dog ate my sandwich I would be so tempted to tell the owner that it was a chocolate spread sandwich.

The woman who had hers pinched was a nervous looking Japanese tourist who looked very embarrassed by the whole thing. And it was a subway sandwich.