How do you defend your toddlers from dogs not on leads?

[Flatearthersphere]

I have 3 children 3 and under, we often go to the park, on walks to different places, our local reservoir with a play area, picnics etc etc..
Anywsy all these areas say dogs should be on leads but they aren't I would say about 50 percent of the time, not exaggerating but just seems the norm round here.

Anyway I am guessing most people could pick up their toddler if a dog came bounding up to them but I have 3, usually 2 in the pushchair and one walking. I thought this would be OK but I was in a situation a few days ago which scared me.

I had 2 in the pushchair, an elderly woman had a big collie which bounded up to us, on one of those extendable leads and she just let it run up to us, I shouted "please pull your dog away" and picked up my eldest but she just said "don't be silly he's being friendly" and I said "I Dont care pull it away" but she refused and it jumped up into my pushchair and scratched all my sons legs even though I was trying to push it away because I was holding a child.

This isn't the first time I've been in this situation, even me and my husband have struggled when we've been holding hands with all 3 and there was a big pit bull cross or something which knocked one of our toddlers clean off his feet.

Genuinely, how do other people deal with these situations? I feel like I can't ever take the children out on my own and like we have to keep them in the pushchair all the time even if there is 2 of us. I'm finding I am avoiding going out now and it's getting depressing.

one of my dd was bitten in the face by a friendly dog and another one was knocked down by a dog then scratched and nipped, both dogs according to the owners were friendly, the fucking arsehole irresponsible entitled owners are reason they are both now scared of dogs. I have no problem giving a dog a kick to get it away from me, I dont want them near me and my girls really dont.

It's a bit extreme to use a longbow.

See while these ravening beasts are galumphing away happily in the distance, you don't know that they pose a threat. So reaching for your longbow is a bit extreme IMHO

Whereas a Yorkshire Terrier off lead and running up to your tot is a clear and present danger. No-one could possibly blame you for deploying sword/shield in those circumstances.

You'd never want the DC to pat the dog. All sorts of awfulness could arise. Deploy the sword when the canines get into close quarters.

@thesearepearls are you OK hun?

Super thank you :)

Just off to walk the dog - let me know if the sword/shield advice works for you.

I also had 3 under 3 and was in a situation similar once where a large not very friendly looking dog was bounding straight at us. I literally thought, so which 2 kids do I save because I couldn't pick all 3 up. I ended up sort of shielding them and shouting at the dog and thankfully it cleared off. But it did leave me pretty shook up.

some dog owners just have no clue and don't care how it makes others feel.

It’s ok, thanks to my ferocious parenting skills, my children are both adults. Plus we now live in an area mostly populated by civilised dogs with decent owners.

I once grabbed a small dog by the scruff. I was about 17 and he was scaring my.... 4(?) yo brother...

But that's obviously not possible with large dogs.

I was just so upset by the owner thinking it was little boy just being 'precious' and that the dog just 'wanted to say hello' (when a small child was crying...)

I felt super sorry for the dog (afterwards). Not like the dog chose to have such an inconsiderate witch as an owner...:/

Context: two dogs had killed the chickens and his duck that year... (He really didn't like most dogs after this happened...)

Teaching children to stand very still and calling the owner calmly but sternly might work.

Not sure what to do when the owner isn't in sight... (When encountering dogs in the woods, e.g.)

I would tell people’s dogs off. This is rude dog behaviour and dogs do not do it to each other (they do careful approach and respectful sniffing unless they’re already acquainted or very badly socialised). Of course they have been taught that their behaviour is acceptable by their owners.

OP, you can project “Fuck off” at the dog (in the same way as you would with people) square your shoulders, put strength in your movements, and think “You WILL NOT come here, these small people belong to ME.” It is remarkable how well dogs pick up the energy that people project. Calm and assertive is the key. Also, a step forward and a loud, low pitched “NO” (not a shout - more like a low bark) is a good deterrent if a dog is coming too close. Most dogs know what no means.

Owners might get annoyed, but they should have taught their dogs better manners. You are the one who gets to decide if dogs get to come near your children.

here we go again...
The last horrible dog thread is probably still rumbling on in a dark corner of AIBU.

OP, no need to defend your children, it's not fire breaking dragons, stay calm and tell the owner to keep them away.

Sometimes dogs are just running past people and aren't in the least bit interested in anyone's children. I swear sometimes people look at them and are actually offended they didn't pay any attention to little Henry or Olivia.

I very rarely see unruly dogs, people are more likely to run up to my puppy (on lead and stroke her without asking). Understandably she does sometimes nip them (which I always warn their deaf ears about) then they look surprised when the nip comes. People do need to teach their kids about how to behave round animals as much as the relatively few who don’t control their dogs we share space and need to learn to get along. But in the meantime stay still! Teach your kids not to scream and flap. Hold the dog firmly by the collar. Say no very firmly. Shout the dog owner over with can you fetch your dog my kids are frightened.

I'm completely with you, OP. I've had similar in my park a few times recently and it really pisses me off.

And the dog owners' hurt-face, and 'he's only trying to be friendly' gives me the fucking rage. I don't know your dog, I only have your word for that, and it's my job to protect the tiny human in this situation.

My then 2 year old DS was jumped all over by an out of control dog with a completely incompetent owner and was nipped on his head. He was nowhere near the dog and was merrily running along some raised grass alongside a path when the stupid woman lifted the dog up onto the raised grass, let lete dog off lead and it immediately ran for my son. Because it was raised grass I couldn't get to him. I went ape shit - she cried and tried to use the excuse that it was still training - I told her in no uncertain terms that if her dog wasn't trained and couldn't be controlled it shouldn't be allowed off the lead!

Following that incident I always carry a large golf umbrella - my Nana's advice - it's reassuring to know that if an out of control dog does approach us I have a way of guiding it away from us and I wouldn't hesitate in using it to hit an out of control, aggressive dog if it was going for us.

I think what some dog owners fail to remember / realise is that their dogs are eye level with small children and thats fucking scary to be looked in the eye by a strange dog.

It's very annoying. I'm not a dog person and I'm a bit scared of them. Happened all the time when I had a toddler, always backed up with it's OK they're only being friendly. You notice it more because you're in parks and fields more when you have kids I suppose. We had dogs jumping up at us, dogs barking at us aggressively, all sorts. Most owners never even apologised or called back. One man was about 2 minutes behind his dog who was literally barking and snarling at my and my toddler the whole time. When he was arrived I was scared and asked him to put his dog on the lead. His answer "there's always one, I've been coming here for years" I said "but he's barking and snarling at us for two minutes and won't go away?" He never apologised and walked off calling me a trouble maker.

Nah, you won't persuade dog-haters with logic. I'm trying absurdity but I'm not sure it's working. I'll have another go

I have been thinking about the prospect of potentially turning your house into a fort OP and not venturing out again because of these dastardly canines. You could dig a massive moat around your house and it would be a real feature

The only drawback with the moat solution is that dogs can actually swim (they doggy-paddle!) but I think you would be well within your rights to deploy a longbow if you found a dog paddling across your moat.

Anyway at least you would be saved from dastardly canines on extendable leads being walked by elderly women.

Chardonnay

So you are cool with out of control dogs knocking over and scratching small children?

Any dog owner that allows that to happen should be reported and their dogs taken away. Ignorant twats.

I repeat: if you like your dog then keep it on the lead and away from kids or expect the get reported to the police when your 'friendly' mutt damages an actual person.

I was attacked by a dog. I still have nerve damage in my arm 20 years later. All I did was walk past it on the pavement when it's owners were stood talking to someone. Apparently it was a friendly dog who had never harmed anyone before.

The comments on here astound me. It is not ok to let your dog run up to other people in public, regardless of their reaction. Especially children. If you think otherwise then you're an entitled and irresponsible twat.

Where did I say I'm cool with it?

I said "Ask the owner to keep them away".

What exactly suggests to you I'm OK with little children being knocked over?

What I'm saying is dogs generally don't give a flying rat's arse about you, but so many people are spoiling for a fight because they perceive them as a threat.

If you come across and excitable and friendly dog then move in front on your children placing yourself between the children and the dog, extend your arm palm up and say 'stop', ideally in a firm and deep voice. Ideally your children should remain quiet and not move, as noise and movement could excite the dog further.

If you come across an aggressive and dangerous dog, everyone should stand still, avoid all eye contact and fold arms.

Also, what people who know dogs don't understand is that if you are scared you are worried about shouting or raising your voice at that moment, even to alert the owner. You just kind of freeze. The dog that was snarling at us in the park for two minutes was a little terrier but my reaction is to just sort of freeze. I don't want to make the situation worse.

I had no hesitation in kicking a snarling dog that was aiming for my beautiful sweet Labrador. I certainly wouldn’t have hesitated if it had been going for my children. Some people are just bloody thick and can’t accept that they’re in the wrong and that their dogs are poorly trained. I really, really wish that they’d bring back the dog licence.

One thing I would suggest, if it’s physically possible and you’re not grabbing children, is to whip out a phone and film them. People get very focussed on the problem in hand if they think you’re filming them. I sometimes pretend to film the speeding twat motorists that zoom through our village. They usually slow down, sometimes I get a gesture or a swear word too but they definitely see what I’m doing.

To all those saying to carry water pistols and spray approaching dogs etc... DO NOT DO THIS. Dogs generally love water play and squirting a water pistol at it would serve to invite the dog to come play which involves playful snapping at the jet of water...you would just be encouraging this behaviour.

Chardonnays, the problem is that the owners NEVER DO keep them away when you ask them to! Many of them don’t even have enough control over their dogs to make them stop anyway - and their frantic and frustrated cries to their dogs make the whole thing even more frightening.
Dog owners refuse to put their dogs on leads even when it is clearly spelled out on signage and even after this has been pointed out. They literally don’t give a fuck.
I’ve even had abuse shouted at me because my children were crying - “normal children wouldn’t react like that”. That was lovely for my kids.
I’ve actually now got to the point where DS2 (3y) won’t go to the nature reserve, the park, out for a walk etc, because he knows there will be bloody dogs there and their owners WILL let them harass and hurt him. Poor kid cannot even enjoy being outdoors which is totally fucking unfair, sorry, but it is.
How many of us need to post here about ACTUAL harm being done to little kids before you accept there is a problem??

I'm a dog owner and a mum of a 1yr old so hopefully can give an unbiased reply.

First of all, I agree that dog owners who allow their dogs to jump up at kids etc with the "they're just being friendly" excuse are annoying as hell. My dog is actually scared of a lot of dogs and most of the "friendly" dogs are actually acting inappropriately in doggy language, never mind in terms of interactions with children.

My dog is mainly on an extendable lead and I always try to rein him in if I see small children approaching and tend to use the parents as a guide initially as to whether they want the child to meet my dog (does the parent step between my dog and the child, or even just take the child's hand, does the parent try to stroke my dog etc). If the parent does try to stroke my dog I allow the lead to extend to permit this but if the child becomes even slightly fearful I rein the dog in again.

However, parents who allow their child to scream or run around/away, or automatically pick up their child, irritate the heck out of me. I'm trying my hardest to control my dog and teach him to be calm around kids so I'd appreciate it if parents could try to teach their kids the same with regards being near dogs. I know a previous poster mentioned turning the back and folding arms and this is what you should teach your children if they are unsure about dogs. Staring at a dog is an invitation for it to approach (in doggy language).

I think if you are in a park etc where children are to be expected, then YANBU to expect a dog to either be on a lead or to be called back by its owner and for it to either go back to its owner immediately or for them to apologise for their dogs behaviour. However, if you're near a wide open space, perhaps like the reservoir you mention, where children are less expected, you may have to be a bit more accommodating of slightly less obedient dogs (however, you should still expect an apology if the dog, for example, ignores its owner and still approaches you and your children).

Finally, a dog can be reported to the police if it is perceived to be a threat by someone - this includes it jumping up at you. If it makes you fearful etc then it can be reported and the owner will hopefully then be forced to be more responsible. I think this law is silly as a perfectly friendly dog, not even approaching anyone, could be perceived as a threat by anyone with a dog phobia, but hey, I don't make the laws, I just try to abide by them as a responsible dog owner.

I get that people love their dogs. That they are part of the family. That you have an emotional connection with them. But you cannot let that blind you to the fact that they are animals who are preprogrammed to attack and show dominance, and who do frequently harm people and especially small children - often without warning and after years of being sweet and friendly.