AIBU to have done a little happy dance when I read this.

[Skarossinkplunger]

I realise that loads of people will absolutely hate this, but I had a huge sigh of relief when I read this. Well done Justine!

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/media/2018/jun/13/mumsnet-transgender-row-feminism-tougher-forum-rules

What anti trans feeling @Stompythedinosaur?

I see frightened women and frightened transwomen fighting against erasure from a small faction of very vocal and threatening physically dominant people, who benefit from socialisation as a male and the muscular skeletal structure of a man. These people are largely aggressive and aren’t afraid to use this physical dominance. They live in the belief they are the upgraded version of woman making natal females redundant.

Wanting a feminist but not anti trans board. Really? You’ve got a whole fucking site for that, did you not read the new rules? The whole situation is so pro trans it’s unreal. We can now say god is a lie but not that someone with male genitalia and legal status as a man is a man if they self identify as female. Self Id doesn't legally exist in the U.K.

You’d have to be pretty obtuse to ‘not see’ the anti trans sentiment. Opinions and differing opinions are fine. But the spiteful phrasing on this site is shameful. You people think you can say anything in the nastiest way possible and have no backlash but we see you.

Trans ladies. Snort.

This all comes down to who Mumsnet is really for. Clearly, it's for mums, who are women. Transwomen are not biologically mothers and transmen don't identify as women so don't identify as mothers. So why is Mumsnet pandering to the wrong audience while silencing the concerns of actual mothers?

Hideandgo
Do you ever say You people think you can say anything in the nastiest way possible and have no backlash but we see you. to the transpeople, who threaten to kill natal women or wish them dead?

More policing of what you can say. Goodbye free speech.

Let the debate continue
Delete the offensive posts
And onwards

I consider myself a feminist. I’m supportive of trans rights. I’m interested in a discussion and understand why some women do not accept trans women to be women. But I can not stand to venture on to the trans threads for more than a few minutes as I find them so hate filled.

stopfuckingshoutingatme - exactly. It's quite simple. Whether people think they're being offensive or not, many others think they are. So there are guidelines that will be quite simple to stick to. If you don't, you risk deletion or suspension.

It's not abuse. It's not coercion. It's that a website has posting guidelines. Like the overwhelming majority of sites. And some posters have pushed it and pushed it to the point that MN have had to draw a line.

And they're carrying on pushing it and risking it being shut down completely. Which no-one wants as it's an important issue.

I didn't think those MNers "broke into" the men only pool did they?

And I wish the guardian was as quick to write about some of the hateful things trans activists say about women

The article was about mumsnet. What TRAs say elsewhere is not the point and it’s no excuse for the way people speak on here.

Who is mumsnet for? Mums like me too. Who find the way some of you speak about trans people deeply offensive. And mums of trans people. And mums who are friends with trans people. And people who aren’t mums have every right to be here too. It’s a public forum.

Great post Hideandgo.

@PositivelyPERF, I was agreeing with you, I hate the cis label! Sorry, probably wasn't clear!

We all know Mumsnet was started for mums. It is clear that the main people attacking Mumsnet over this are not genuine Mumsnet users, but angry (male) social justice warriors seeking out supposedly transphobic comments. Their response is then to attack Mumsnet and try to deter advertisers. Their actions show contempt for women and complete disregard for the wonderful tool that Mumsnet is for countless women, including those who are vulnerable and/or struggling.

I am happy to agree that some of the terminology used against trans people has been abusive and unnecessary. But most of the trans discussions simply state fact (such as acknowledging biological differences between women and transwomen) and share valid concerns about the impact of the GRA on women's spaces, women's sports, women's health, etc. By health I refer to recent attempts by transactivists to ban the words "mothers" and "women" from maternity care.

What's the priority here? Providing networking and support for mums or validating the identity of angry social justice warriors? I don't know how anyone who wants to shut down a forum for mums can possibly claim to care about women, let alone be one.

But that's exactly what some of the Spartacus posters will end up doing.

What pisses me off is the number of women who pretend they are ok with Transwomen in female only spaces because they are afraid to say they are not.

Talk to these women in private about how they feel and it's a different story to the one they present outwardly. We are being browbeaten into denying reality.

I don't think transwomen should be in female spaces. It's possible to think and say that without being offensive though. I just did!

Did it ever occur to you that you are possibly the browbeater? I’ve no issue with trans women in women only spaces (though understand that some women do) and know many other women who also have no problem with it. You assume women are too weak to stand up and say they have a problem when actually that is not the case and you’re being pretty insulting to many women.

'Cis' isn't derogatory? It's just a descriptor? Like when gay people say 'straight'?

Just because people haven't announced that they are trans doesn't mean you should assume that they align with any particular gender.

Women have been fighting for decades to have female uncoupled from 'is quiet and hairless, can't drive or do maths, naturally nurturing, loves to clean etc, etc' AKA gender which is why it is bloody irritating to be called cis. Being female is just biology, not all the other shit that is assumed to go along with being a woman. I don't want all the other shit so am not 'cis'.

Parelle, do you really think that Jan Morris, who is over 90, has had surgery and has lived as a woman for over 50 years, should be banned from women's toilets?

Bibesia Do you really think that there is no need to have a distinction between males and females? To recognise that females face certain challenges because of their biology?

Nick Baker, outreach and communications manager of Hero, a LGBQT rights organisation, broadly welcomed the change in moderation policies: “The forums on gender at Mumsnet have for a long time been a horrible place for anyone who advocates for LGBTQ+ rights.”

Equality for all? I could get behind that.

“Mumsnet have at last recognised this issue and the damaging effect it has on trans people and that sweeping negative generalisations about any group will not be tolerated. However, the proposed policy to also moderate terms such as cisgender [identifying with the gender one has at birth] show that the forums may not be set up to enable balanced discussion on gender identity.”

Or not.

You assume women are too weak to stand up and say they have a problem when actually that is not the case and you’re being pretty insulting to many women.

That’s pretty much the argument used by “Lauren” Hubbard, the male weight lighter who now competes as a woman, when asked whether his huge physical advantages were unfair on the women he is now winning against.