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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to ask how do private schools produce such "confident" kids / adults and how I can do it at home?

995 replies

dragontwo · 12/06/2018 21:11

Ok, I have my reservations about private schools, but I recognise that often they produce kids / adults with high self confidence and self assurance.

I want to know how they do this, how they drill this confidence into them, and how I can replicate any beneficial aspects of this at home into my own kid (state schooled)?

What do they say / do / teach that encourages them to be so confident and expect success?

I know there are down sides to everything but I'm just thinking about good ideas I can help my kid. NB I'm no tiger mother and do my best to encourage my kid as it is already but just looking for ideas and general thoughts on how it's done!!

Just curious!

OP posts:
IWillSurviv · 13/06/2018 22:11

Considering all the advantages the private school kids have and the work that goes into them, these problems should be much lower than the state

What on earth has having advantages got to do with numbers of dc presenting with anxiety? do you think dc at private schools are immune from any social/emotional challenges? what about dc like ds who have SEN along with anxiety? or dc suffering neglect? problematic home lives?

I think you have a very over-exaggerated view of the advantages of a private education.

Oliversmumsarmy · 13/06/2018 23:18

Also yes yes yes to the parents all being very confident - probably mostly down to money and being in positions of power in their professional lives

Yes I am confident, but not because I had money or was in a position of power or had a professional life.

I am confident and talk to anybody and everybody
I used to be on the brunt of my dm telling me that I shouldn't have said something or mustn't do stuff incase it came across as rude, too forward, wrong or the talk of the neighborhood. The angst was too much to bare as she would tie herself in knots if she had to speak in public or just have a quick word with someone over something inocuous.

I realised early on most people couldn't give a crap about stuff. Once you realise that, life gets so much easier.

gillybeanz · 14/06/2018 00:50

I'm confident but don't have a professional life, certainly no money, we are a low income family.
My dd is self assured and very confident.
She was like this before she went to her amazing (for her) school, having been H.ed for most of juniors.
I think it's a mix of nature and nurture tbh, money doesn't always come into it, as dd proves.
Yes, it's the formal teas, representing the school at events, being a section leader (musical), a guardian Angel to the younger one's.
I know other schools have excellent facilities to encourage and support sports, Drama, Speech., and in dd case deportment.

For us it wasn't just making do with extra curricular activities in our own town and just after school. it was travelling the country to take part in activities she really enjoyed, some needing auditions or a particular level.
It was a way of life that has only been replicated by her private specialist education.
The confident child has emerged into a confident, self assured, determined, resilient young woman, who knows exactly what she wants from life and when.
I am in awe of her, but keep her grounded when she's at home. Grin

So I guess for us, it was me putting in a lot of effort and her interest taking over, and being the priority.
However, I can't answer how she became like that in the first place, I only followed her lead.
I'm not suggesting that everyone should do the same btw, or it's a good model or anything.
It's just our experience.

famousfour · 14/06/2018 02:17

I don't think private school is the magic solution for everything or that all private school kids are confident - I think people just disproportionately remember those who are.

Agree with all the comments about ways of developing confidence. Clearly having broad horizons, prosperity and a sense of being 'at the top of the tree' is going to make all of that a lot easier.

As for whether private school teachers are qualified or not - I suppose cheery it depends on the value you put on those qualifications (I don't have experience of the qualification so I couldn't say). At its best the fact the school teachers dont need the pgce means that there is the flexibility to employ whoever they see as best for the job. At worst it is open to abuse by schools staffing classes with inexperienced unqualified teachers who are cheaper (if they really are cheaper). But education is fairly transparent in terms of grade success which many private school live or die by so I can't see that being a good strategy for long. Eton seems to be doing ok... (and no I don't buy into attributing all private school success to cheating).

Bloodybridget · 14/06/2018 04:39

manicinsomniac's post 12/6, 21.23 is really interesting and helpful. Something that all schools could do, surely (well, maybe not the dinner parties at head teacher's).

mathanxiety · 14/06/2018 05:20

MovableFeast
However, although there are kids burning the midnight oil and succeeding in incredible ways in many fields, DH and I take a different tack. We are in it for the long haul and want to raise emotionally solid and stable kids so we don't allow too many commitments and there is absolutely no way my kids are staying at school till 10:30pm, more like 5:30pm They have a balanced life.
It's not necessarily a case of either/or.
A huge number of teens here are involved in the fantastic extra curriculars in school and there is frequently a traffic jam near the school between 10 and 10:30pm. With very few exceptions, teens participate in their chosen activities because they genuinely enjoy them. In particular those participating in activities like Spoken Word, three musicals a year plus the summer school musical, plus three different drama groups putting on several productions per year are there out of interest, ditto show choir and orchesis (dance) plus the gospel choirs and many musical ensembles.

Even kids doing sports can also be assumed to do it out of enjoyment and genuine interest. Some kids are really very motivated. There are scholarship funds available to cover costs for students wishing to participate in sports who cannot afford equipment or the participation fee. Participation in extra curriculars is very important for communities within the wider school community who might feel othered or 'on the outside looking in' - a particular challenge is engaging low income African American teens.

Sport is one of the ways the school attempts to build the important sense of belonging of having your contribution appreciated, and performing arts is another. Having a successful team to support makes a difference to many cohorts in the school and success is celebrated at assemblies. A 'C to play' rule aims to heighten students' academic focus. Many black teen boys have managed to graduate with decent GPAs because they have had a good relationship with a football or basketball coach who wouldn't stop nagging them about homework, and a friendly face in the tutoring centre when they had to go there for a week to get their grades up.

In my DCs's school the former head basketball coach taught math and coached basketball for 45 years and was in a position to really make a difference in athletes' lives. Teachers are paid a $10k stipend annually to coach or to direct drama/musicals/singing/dancing troupes or to run a club, etc. and they can develop relationships with students and thus provide a foundation for them that they might not otherwise experience. Not all students have the benefit of a stable, loving family life and parents who know or care enough to guide them as they make choices in their teen years. Some parents have a chip on their shoulders about school and do not support their children as they should.

Developing relationships by means of extra curriculars is really important in giving students a sense of belonging and a strong interest in taking responsibility for their own homework, classroom behaviour and choices outside of the classroom (there are bottom lines - no arrests, no drinking, no drug taking if you are on a team or in a performing arts activity). I assume based on my own observation of local Catholic high schools that integrating communities that are marginalised is not an issue in the one your DCs attend (it wasn't an issue in the RC elementary mine went to and it isn't in the two RC HSs in my area) but in a public high school there can be factors at work that make strong extra curriculars schoolwide very desirable.

My dd is aiming for the local public university which is one of the best in the world and a third of the price of most private unis.
Students expecting to receive a good deal of financial aid are often far better advised to apply to private universities, especially that magic group of between 60 and 70 universities that offer to meet 100% of demonstrated need. The ticket price of private universities is not necessarily what each student pays. So far, two of my DDs have had 95% of the cost essentially waived, in both cases to universities that would have cost over 60K per year. There are many US students who could end up paying more for a state university than for a private university, and as with private universities there is a wide variety when it comes to quality in public universities.

I have been a recruiter for international companies and a college counselor and I know what they are looking for and so know it is not more of the same. So I don't allow my kids to take on unholy amounts of stress but instead our interests as a family are more quirky and community based. I know they would prefer high schoolers to have worked a paid modest job than a lot of the flashy stuff out there.
Again, more activities doesn't necessarily mean more stress.
Not every student has a great family life, or a family that can afford to expose children to a variety of interests. For many students, participation in a drama or playing water polo in school will be the only time they got to experience something outside of the routine. The local high school also offers opportunities to participate in a buddy programme where special ed students participate in outings with mainstream students - to baseball games, to museums, to events around town. There is also a very well subscribed service club whose members participate in all aspects of fundraising for good causes. It's not all me, me, me striving.

A huge number of students work part time - we are lucky to have a lot of local businesses that absorb the demand for work - and many volunteer at the local food bank and local libraries and animal shelters, etc. My DCs all worked part time through school and university, first babysitting and doing yard work, and then on to PT office work, work in shops and cafes, and then full time summer work in offices and also volunteering as summer interns in the office of a local state representative.

My kids have lived abroad and attended schools where they had to survive and learn a new language. That will go a lot further than the insanity of barely any sleep for 4 years. We want to give our kids time to breathe, relax and figure out who they are in a healthy way. I think it is very important not to try and over produce your child and their life.
Again, not every family can offer the experience of living abroad, or speaking another language, and it's not necessarily parents pushing kids into stressful situations. Most parents are more inclined to avoid stressing students out, sometimes to the frustration of teachers whose subjects have a reputation for being demanding - AP European History, AP Physics, and some of the engineering classes for instance.
In my local HS, levels of participation in extra curriculars, APs, etc, are not necessarily because of pressure from parents. Having a school as a focus of efforts to create a community that tries to include and value everyone's contribution and where students feel welcome is in everybody's interest - nobody wins when there is a wide academic achievement gap and significant parts of a community feel they are unappreciated, unwelcome, edged out. One very successful way of forging a community is running a successful football programme (autumn) with its associated wrestling (winter) and strong track programmes (spring) for boys, or a basketball programme. Engagement is key.

We are happy with our choices. Our kids go to Catholic schools for the community and support as well as the academic excellence and they are not as expensive as regular private schools due to parents volunteering time and talents in and out of school.
I have also experienced the hands on expectation for parents in RC school and loved it. But other school models also offer the element of community spirit, and at least in my case the local public HS is an example of that though it takes a different route to that destination.

PeggySchuylar · 14/06/2018 09:17

Something that all schools could do, surely (well, maybe not the dinner parties at head teacher's).

At my DC’s comp the headteacher has lunch with half a form on a Friday. There is a menu, courses, tablecloth, conversation. The headteacher is friendly and welcoming but clearly is also on a manners mission. He once said quietly, “Ashley. Elbows.” Ashley looked at his elbows, puzzled before being gently prompted to take them off the table.

The comp is close to a private school. The comp headteacher clearly strives to give the pupils confidence.

One of my DC is at the Indy. There are sittings at lunchtime so that everyone gets a proper meal. The dining room is calm and all the staff eat with the pupils so they get the “headteacher’s lunch” experience everyday whereas at the comp it is just a few times.

Land0r · 14/06/2018 09:40

At our school (3-11) every child shakes hands with their teacher at the end of the day, makes eye contact and says "Good afternoon Mr Smith" in response to the teacher saying "Good afternoon Fred".

Also lots of performing opportunities, lots of drama and lots of visitors to the school (prospective parents, visiting speakers etc) who need to be greeted politely, shown round etc.

arethereanyleftatall · 14/06/2018 09:59

@Land0r
Is that at private or state? because at my dcs state primary, then do all that too.
Many posters have written about some good practices at private, as if these things don't happen at state schools. They do! Possibly not at all, I don't know, I only have experience of one state primary school, but it offers all the things posters have listed here as if they're exclusive to private.

I have read this thread with interest, I think every post.
I noticed that many of the (now adult) posters who actually went to private schools themselves didn't have good experiences and haven't become confident; whereas most parents who have children at private schools have raved about it. I wonder what these children will say when they're older.

Land0r · 14/06/2018 10:14

Sorry, I didn't say - it's private. I didn't mean to imply it doesn't happen at state school, apologies. I was just saying what our school does.

BertrandRussell · 14/06/2018 10:40

A lot of the things mentioned are only possible with tiny class sizes. Shaking hands with every child, for example!

And if I were a teacher, I wouldn’t necessarily want to spend my lunch time eating with my pupils. I might want to spend it reading a book with my sandwiches or going for a run or chatting with my friends. You know- having a break?

tomhazard · 14/06/2018 10:50

Interesting thread. I work at a private school and although it's non-selective the dc there are supremely confident in most cases.
At secondary I think it's the following:

They know they come from a more wealthy background than average and their parents are paying. This makes them feel automatically special and 'worthwhile'

The classes are smaller so there is more opportunity to speak out, give opinions and less chance of your teacher overlooking you. My classes are between 10 and 16 pupils.

Most parents are educated and confident themselves- this rubs off on them.

If I have enough money when my DC are older then I would certainly pay for this elevation in self-belief.

Loopytiles · 14/06/2018 11:08

No one has said these things don’t happen at (some) state schools. But state schools, in general, have much less money so it’s harder to do it.

WalkingOnAFlashlightBeam · 14/06/2018 11:11

And if I were a teacher, I wouldn’t necessarily want to spend my lunch time eating with my pupils. I might want to spend it reading a book with my sandwiches or going for a run or chatting with my friends. You know- having a break?

Yes this seems odd. Surely this is part of the working day and not a break? And then the teacher has time for a break away from the kids?

It’s like when I worked in a prison me being expected to sit and eat my lunch with the prisoners. I wouldn’t consider that a break as I’m still with the people I have some responsibility for, can’t fully switch off. Personally I need downtime doing and saying nothing for a while after a hectic morning being around others constantly. I’d be surprised if teachers aren’t the same.

frasier · 14/06/2018 11:24

All the prepreps we looked around in London mentioned that teachers ate with the children. It seemed important to them in the same way as family meals are important.

The head at one told me that she has her best conversations with Reception pupils over lunch!

She used the word “confident” a lot, several of the Heads did, it does seem to be a goal.

Dixiechickonhols · 14/06/2018 11:25

I’d imagine a rota for teachers eating with pupils or break other times in private eg when class is taught by specialist games teacher/Spanish teacher/music teacher whereas in state generally at primary the teacher is the one doing all teaching.

yy558 · 14/06/2018 11:28

In some privates they might offer more unusual extra curricular activities such as elocution lessons, debate club, chess club and kids aren't bullied by each other about it to be self conscious. Therefore they feel more comfortable to be themselves.

(I have seen some state primaries have chess clubs too)

At least that seemed to be the experience my younger brother had.

BertrandRussell · 14/06/2018 11:39

It’s all about privilege and being told that you are special. And family background.

All this stuff about lunch and chess clubs is just fudge.

And it’s also important to remember that you notice the confident ones. If you then discover they come from a private school you think “Oh that explains it” If they come from a state school you think “it must be their parents”. It’s just confirmation bias.

AsAProfessionalFekko · 14/06/2018 11:42

Thats just not so. Who didn't tell their kids that they are special, great, talented?

BertrandRussell · 14/06/2018 11:45

“Thats just not so. Who didn't tell their kids that they are special, great, talented?”

Lots of people, sadly. And very few children are told that at practically every assembly..........

Want2bSupermum · 14/06/2018 11:50

The way lunch is eaten is a big difference. I went to a private school and DH didn't. I pay zero thought to table manners when with customers. It was something he had to work on. I also knew how to eat and converse while he had to master that. It's a small thing but it is actually quite important when it comes to 'having confidence'.

All these experiences and extracurricular activities is noise. I take my kids out and about. Outside of sports which are team based, I don't push for them to do much. If they want to do something fine, otherwise I leave it. Having said that DD1 is turning 7. She does violin and piano at school. DS is 5 and he loves the drums.

frasier · 14/06/2018 11:55

Dixiechickonhols That was the case at our nursery. The class went to the dining room together, teachers, TAs, head of nursery, but when the children had French, Dance, Music or Sport the children were with other teachers. (Nursery attached to a school so specialist teachers available.)

Who looks after the little ones at lunchtime if the teachers don’t?

Ivytheterrible · 14/06/2018 12:01

My daughter is changing from state to independent this autumn, going into y3. The latest communication includes...

“I believe very strongly in the value of working together as colleagues to raise your daughter and ensure her success. Your input will be enormously valuable in the years ahead and I look forward to your support.”

The whole “raise your daughter” I think is quite telling. In that they are invested in her not just academically, but across all aspects of her life and want to help define her as a person not “just” teach her. This approach I think is quite different to how state schools see their role!

She’s already very confident but it’ll be interesting to see how she changes and develops in this new environment.

beachbodyunready · 14/06/2018 12:03

Vocabulary- the wider it is the better. Get your children reading from an early age and encourage discussion and debate about topical subjects, current affairs etc.

ethelfleda · 14/06/2018 12:07

I wish I knew! My boy is only 7 months old but am already worrying about how I am doing each day with regards to raising him as a happy and confide by child!

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