New GSCEs too difficult?

[Trishtrash]

"In GCSE English it's all exams – there is no coursework – and pupils are not allowed to bring in any of the texts. They effectively have to memorise three texts and 18 poems. The expectation is killing them.'

The above is a quote from today's Daily Mail - sorry!

Am I being unreasonable to think that that is not an unreasonable thing to require of an A-Level Student? I did my A-Levels over 30 years ago in a bog-standard comprehensive and we couldn't do any coursework ahead of the game and we certainly couldn't take any of the texts into the exam (that would have made it so much easier!!).

I remember having to memorise vast swathes of poetry (Keats, Wordsworth, Somerset Maugham etc...) and chunks of text (Doris Lessing, Return of the Native, A Winter's Tale are ones that I vaguely remember) in the expectation that we would need to quote from the poetry/texts to support a variety of themes/ideas that we might be asked questions on.

I have no idea about the rest of the curriculum as I did Art, English and History. I definitely had to memorise tons for the History element (I did modern History so stuff about Russian Revolution, WW1 & 2 and the EEC). I know that kids are under enormous pressure now and I got an A for my English Literature but there was no A* around then from what I remember (it WAS a long time ago!)

Is the problem that the teachers haven't been adequately prepared or supported to teach for this style of exam? If the kids are going in after two years of expecting another style of exam then I really feel for them but is this the case?

Dd is a 'good' student, not going to set the world alight but solid B

Has always worked to the best of her ability, liked by teachers etc

She has been unlucky enough to become ill at the same time as her cohort are being used as test subjects

I feel sick

And she has been unlucky, healthy she wouldn't have such problems so i get that

But the system stinks...work hard and try your best for 11 years and you pass or fail in one 6 week period

It takes a long time to look stuff up in a text book or dictionary though.

I sat my A levels in 1988 blush]

And I remember talking to one of my friends and her literature class were allowed books!!!

Why didnt i check god??? Why??? Why???

GCSEs unfortunately come at the complete wrong time for teenagers hormonally/emotionally/mentally in my opinion. They are going through so many things related to their biological/emotional/sexual development around that time, the stress of the exams is way too much.
My grandmother has been saying the above for years! And she did O Levels. There's way more pressure now.

uyu

Exactly

When you are 16 you wonder why you are being tortured like that

Then you forget all about it til your children are older

Then you wonder why they are being tortured...still!!

it takes a long time to look stuff up in a text book or dictionary though.

Well, if you choose your quotations and can make a mental note of where they fall in the novel, a page number perhaps or the name of the poem, it becomes much quicker. Just quickly flip to that page and locate it.

Yeah that's stupid. I don't think anyone can remember the whole of Macbeth. I can't recite a whole book from memory and in A levels that's really impractical

I suppose the question for me is, what is assessment for? Why do we examine students at all? Obviously it is a stressful process, and not good for all of them, irrespective of the outcomes. So why do we do it?

I would be interested to hear what people think about this.

But the system stinks...work hard and try your best for 11 years and you pass or fail in one 6 week period

this is why I'm such a big fan of coursework or controlled assesments (when they are done properly!). One bad day in an exam and everyone thinks you can't "do" that subject! Not true, you argue, I've been getting good grades throughout my entire time in this subject!!!

this is why I'm such a big fan of coursework or controlled assesments (when they are done properly!).

But you cannot guarantee that. Cheating was absolutely rife.

Yes I like coursework too, which is why BTECS are so great.

They seem to be going from strength to strength

Also with coursework/CAs there was regular pressure throughout y10&y11, leading to complaints that they didn't have time to learn anything properly because of all the CAs.

I don't know what the answer is. There are pros and cons and winners and losers to any exam/assessment system.

I dont think it should either or

I think it should be done on a variety of methods

So a future employer or place of higher education can see that although you crashed and burned at your history exam that actually you are quite rounded

So slightly less dependent on one exam or some coursework

Intelligence test, teacher reference, overall performance grade with a final exam (which wouldnt need to be huge) and a degree of coursework

There is probably masses wrong with that idea but things could be stretched over the last two years

Also with coursework/CAs there was regular pressure throughout y10&y11, leading to complaints that they didn't have time to learn anything properly because of all the CAs.

Can see how that could happen, too much on either side (CAs/coursework/exams) should be avoided, a blanace is needed.
Not sure what the answer is as you say. Just trying to remember which subjects I had CAs in... Iirc, it was English, History, and French. Some others had coursework elements but no CAs. French oral was awful, I completely blanked despite having been able to recite it that morning at home before coming in etc.

By recite, basically there was an element of examiner asking "random questions" but also a question we had known would be asked previously, in which we had already formulated the answer and had to remember it and give it orally (it was an open-ended type of question and the answer was supposed to be fairly long and detailed with a lot of scope for personal input and direction), recorded. Then we had the written part which was CA (and part in the exam of course). Exam was written and also listening to tapes and deciphering what they were saying (no dictionaries).

Sorry I'm waffling. I quite like thinking back to secondary and primary times.

3 years ago DD had mix of CAs/Coursework and exams for:
Science, English Lang, English Lit, Spanish, French, Drama, History
She had all exams for:
Maths.

The French and Spanish CAs were a travesty. Prepare in advance, learn by heart, regurgitate. Massively open to tutors helping with the creation, and massively favouring those who could learn by rote.

The Science assessments were also a crazy. You could 'mix and match' bits from more than one experiment and write up to achieve the best marks.

It depends what you want exams to be. A test of memory or a test of capability.

I'd rather a test of true capability to use information and knowledge and the ability to apply it.

What we currently have is a set of more difficult exams, almost all testing the children's memory.

The maths had become increasingly difficult. I know many people who have done a level maths and some who have done a degree in maths - the gcse content is not what was in the old GCSEs or o levels; it's much trickier. We shouldn't have a situation where a pass is 18%. We have a whole cohort of kids who are decent mathematicians but who are being led to believe they are dreadful. It's soul destroying.

We are also putting far greater expectation on these kids. They are led to believe that everyone should be getting a dozen grade A* qualifications. Society doesn't help them at all. It used to be that 8 GCSEs at a pass level (grade c) was deemed good; that's no longer the case when you read media and MN is no different.

Rufustheyawningreindeer

I would cheerfully support a teacher reference system if I was both allowed and willing to write the following:

Edna (!) is a spoiled, surly, arrogant little madam who has never give 100% effort to anything other than making sure her eyebrows are on point. She truants lessons, tells outright lies and bullies other children. She is addicted to her phone and appears unable to spend more than 60 seconds without checking her own appearance in the mirror. I doubt she will achieve anything in employment until she has either an epiphany or a lobotomy.

But, on both counts, I'm not!

*given

work hard and try your best for 11 years and you pass or fail in one 6 week period

Yet plenty of people on MN think the 11+ is a great idea, and that's just one exam?

work hard and try your best for 11 years and you pass or fail in one 6 week period

But actually, I don't think this is true.
You pass or fail over 11 years. The last 6 weeks just demonstrates which one it was.

But you cannot guarantee that. Cheating was absolutely rife.

Oh I know. I remember a few getting in trouble for supposedly trying to sneak in paper with their written french already done at home into the CA, to swap with what they do in the classroom. Can't recall what what done about it though, it wasn't in my CA. More controls on what is brought into the classroom would help CAs I think.

Even at Uni levels you aren't just examined. Oftentimes courses have project elements, presentation elements, dissertations, assignments.

The maths had become increasingly difficult. I know many people who have done a level maths and some who have done a degree in maths - the gcse content is not what was in the old GCSEs or o levels; it's much trickier. We shouldn't have a situation where a pass is 18%. We have a whole cohort of kids who are decent mathematicians but who are being led to believe they are dreadful. It's soul destroying.*

Yes! You can make things harder without ending up with this.

Sorry, bold fail there!

But actually, I don't think this is true.
You pass or fail over 11 years. The last 6 weeks just demonstrates which one it was.

You're suggesting if you do poorly in an exam then you must have been bad at those subjects throughout your entire schooling? Or that if you do well in the exam then you must have been very good at it? I think it's possible for some people to do poorly in lessons but then get a good grade in an exam, I also think it's possible for someone who has been getting good grades throughout their schooling to then do poorly in an exam.