New GSCEs too difficult?

[Trishtrash]

"In GCSE English it's all exams – there is no coursework – and pupils are not allowed to bring in any of the texts. They effectively have to memorise three texts and 18 poems. The expectation is killing them.'

The above is a quote from today's Daily Mail - sorry!

Am I being unreasonable to think that that is not an unreasonable thing to require of an A-Level Student? I did my A-Levels over 30 years ago in a bog-standard comprehensive and we couldn't do any coursework ahead of the game and we certainly couldn't take any of the texts into the exam (that would have made it so much easier!!).

I remember having to memorise vast swathes of poetry (Keats, Wordsworth, Somerset Maugham etc...) and chunks of text (Doris Lessing, Return of the Native, A Winter's Tale are ones that I vaguely remember) in the expectation that we would need to quote from the poetry/texts to support a variety of themes/ideas that we might be asked questions on.

I have no idea about the rest of the curriculum as I did Art, English and History. I definitely had to memorise tons for the History element (I did modern History so stuff about Russian Revolution, WW1 & 2 and the EEC). I know that kids are under enormous pressure now and I got an A for my English Literature but there was no A* around then from what I remember (it WAS a long time ago!)

Is the problem that the teachers haven't been adequately prepared or supported to teach for this style of exam? If the kids are going in after two years of expecting another style of exam then I really feel for them but is this the case?

[hairnightmare17]

@ohreallyohreallyoh I'm off a year in terms of when I went to uni. It was 1990. I definitely took my GCSE's in 1988 and I was definitely the first year.

[CPtart]

I was born in Jan 1972. We were the first year to sit the GCSE's in 1988.

[ohreallyohreallyoh]

I was born in jan 72, so must have taken them in 87. Pretty sure I went to uni in sept 89

You're off a year, I think. I did my O levels in 87 but was born September 1970. So the students who took exams in 87 would have been born between September 70 and August 71.

[MyNameIsNotSteven]

OP, memorising quotes is not key. I can't do that but when I am discussing the text in front of my I can do so perceptively. I just have a rubbish memory.

[sashh]

reetgood

That takes time. I can analyse an ECG or someone having a heart attack, from first principles, and tell you things like which part of the heart is currently dieing and extrapolate from that both the amount of damage and which coronary artery is blocked and whether there is involvement of the conducting system and where that involvement is.


I can also look at an ECG for less than a second and tell you the rhythm. It's over 20 years since I worked in cardiology. A friend found some old 'test cards' and tested me, I got them all right.

If your heart is in VF you need a shock from a defib and you need it ASAP.

As soon as the shock is given you need someone looking at the ECG to tell whether it worked and what rhythm you are in because you may need a further shock, and this should be done in seconds not minutes, you don't have time.

[AndromedaPerseus]

I sat GCSEs in 1984 they were an experimental exam whereby you could achieve both Olevels and CSEs so all Olevel grades from A-C also got CSE grade 1, grades D -E also got CSEs 2 and 3 respectively. I think it was to test an exam which everyone could sit and get a qualification from

[xsquared]

Not sure about other subjects but the higher tier GCSE Maths paper 3 this week was unbelievably easy.

[hairnightmare17]

@BoneyBackJefferson you are quite right. I was born in jan 72, so must have taken them in 87. Pretty sure I went to uni in sept 89. I'm not a good one for dates, which didn't help when studying a history degree.

[crunchymint]

I suspect she is looking at data before 1972, when people could leave school at 15, and lots did. So none of them took any exams. Everything changed in 1972 when school leaving age was raised to 16.

[BoneyBackJefferson]

hairnightmare17

How did you manage to take GCSEs two years before the first exams were sat?

They were taught from 86.

[Dungeondragon15]

It was the top 20%, the data supports that.

What data? This link states that from 1976, 36% did O levels of those who were entered for an exam (which was most people btw). My experience was that more than that took some O levels at 16 with many who did CSEs doing o levels a year later.
In 1979, 245,500 people did Maths O level which is a large population.

[reetgood]

@oxcat1 I would be willing to lay down money that gcse students are being directed which passages to memorise. Time, resources, league tables.

[oxcat1]

But surely it is still testing understanding rather than memory? The ability to select from the texts which bits to memorise?

I remember, for all my Eng. Lit exams, pouring through the texts to find 'useful' passages to learn. Some were just very clear examples to support one particular argument, but a 'good' quote, in this instance, was one that could be used in a number of different ways, to answer different questions.

You never learnt it all off by heart, but selecting which passages to learn, and how then yo use them, was part of the skill...?

My degree was in English and marked solely through final examinations, all done without texts.

[DuchyDuke]

They aren’t too difficult, it’s just that as always they seem to be implemented with no thought to how students have spent the past 5 years preparing for them.

[topcat1980]

Winging it might be the best lesson of all.

When I realised all other grown ups were making it up as they go along, just like me, I felt a lot better

[hairnightmare17]

@Cblue oh yes! I see what you mean! I agree re. Winging....I think!!

[Cblue]

@hairnightmare17 - I meant that you could wing it in the olden days which you can't now.
Mind you, winging it has been the greatest skill I learnt.....and it's probably more useful than being able to recite entire chunks of a chemistry text book which seems to be the current requirement

[hairnightmare17]

@Cblue I was the first year to do gcse in 1986. I didn't exactly think they were easy at the time. If I was doing ok, I probably smugly thought i was clever and didn't need to work. Now looking back was I, or were they easier, perhaps it was more likely the latter.

[Solasshole]

The state I went to school in Australia makes English compulsory for anyone doing A levels which is just ridiculous imo I was very good at maths/science subjects at school and had no desire to do anything remotely English or language based at university/career/life in general. My communication and English language was perfectly adequate at 16 years old to function in society and the last 2 years of compulsory English did nothing for me other than bring my average grades down because I despised studying English and am not good at analysing books/poetry/etc. I got A* in chemistry, maths and physics, and B in biology and health studies but couldn't get into the course I wanted to because my average was brought down by my D in English. Such a load of absolute rubbish to force everyone to study English at (the equivalent) of A levels in Australia. I'm still angry about it. They don't force students who want to go into language or arts based careers/degrees/etc to study calculus so why the fuck do they force people who want to go into medicine/science/etc to study Shakespeare at A levels. I got into my chosen career eventually but I guarantee my patients have no benefited at all from those 2 compulsory years of English.

[Cblue]

@hairnightmare17 - sounds like we have very similar experiences of GCSES vs O Levels. When you couldn't be bothered to read the whole book you could get through just skimming the Letts Keynotes (anyone remember them? About 30 in a pack of postcard sized cards. You could pass pretty much anything by spending an hour mins flicking through them)

I did O Levels in the early 80s so perhaps standards had already slumped by then - what years are you guys referring to when you say things are easier now ?

[hairnightmare17]

I haven't read the whole thread but just wanted to say I did my gcse 30 years ago too and got a B. I did Macbeth and can't remember what else. I got that B without reading the play. I would partially pay attention in class. I had a very vague understanding of what it was about and remembered some key phrases...out damned spot, etc.

I'm pretty certain the exam had a few comprehensions, so perhaps I made up marks on those. I was pretty intelligent, at the time and relied on that, rather than actual graft but looking back, can it really have made the difference? Maybe they were just easier then?

My son has done his English gcse recently and worked so hard for it. However, he doesn't grasp themes and meanings as easily as me. So maybe that gave me the edge. He's done it a year early.

He's currently working on his end of year 10 maths and it is so hard. I got a C back in the day but don't think I would ever get that on what he has to do. I'd have to have the most amazing teacher to get me to understand it.

I went on to do English a level and got a D. I didn't read any of those books either! I obviously had a fuzzy understanding but didn't really know the ins and outs. A D would be crap now, whilst it wasn't amazing then I still managed to get into Uni with 2 D's, B and C. Well done to the history teacher, who drummed everything into us and scared me into working. She made me hate history but got me the B.

Anyway my point is, I didn't work nearly hard enough and passed everything. I'm reasonably intelligent but no genius and still passed. So maybe they were easier!

[topcat1980]

It was the top 20%, the data supports that.

The exams didn't get easier, just the grades were awarded once boundaries were reached. Limiting the number of grades is an unfair practice because those boundaries vary from year to year and it isn't a fair comparison for achievement outside of your year.

[reetgood]

@sashh I would hope that someone operating an ecg is able to critically apply their medical knowledge and analyse the image, rather than memorise it....

[SharronNeedles]

It's testing a fish and a squirrel on their ability to climb a tree.
Exams are just stupid at the moment.
I was very bright in school. I hardly did any revisions but I did very well in my exams. My teachers used to describe me as effortlessly clever. I was really good at memorising things.
I failed at uni because I had only learned how to pass an exam and absorb facts. I didn't really understand much of what I churned out.
Even now people are often amazed to find out how good I was in school because I do lack some pretty major skills.

[crunchymint]

topcat Look at papers over a number of years. They had got easier.