To be fed up of the obsession with Oxbridge?

[toucanjungle]

Both of my children go to very academic schools. From age of 14/15, they’ve had drilled into them that oxbridge is the goal.

Anything other than oxbridge or medicine/dentistry is seen almost as a failure.

I’m sorry but it’s just ridiculous, they’re both so so so much more competitive than when the teachers attended. Lots of these children are brilliantly clever and am sad that lots feel like they’ve failed if they don’t gain entry.

You chose to send your children to 'very academic schools', though, didn't you? Very academic schools are going to promote very academic institutions of further education.

In most schools this is not the norm.

Your fault for sending them to that school

It cannot come as a shock to you that the very very academic school you chose to send your children to is pushing highly academic courses at top universities, surely?!

If you didn’t want that pressure for your children I think you should have made different choices for them.

“My children go to very sporty schools. They are told to aim for the olympics. AIBU?”

And your AIBU is?

Oh silly me, you just wanted to humble brag about having kids at an academic school.

As you were.

I get what you mean OP, but even at the top schools it's still only a minority that get into Oxbridge.

Yes you’re correct. It is not the norm.

I’m talking more of a wider society placed value on Oxbridge.

Mumsnet seem obsessed with it too.

Yes I agree with that - Oxbridge is seen as the ultimate ambition. With my DCs (who both went to academic schools), I was surprised that there wasn't any discussion/expoloration of universities that aren't in the UK. There's some fantastic and interesting universities in the US and also in Europe. I was also surprised that very few of the kids went to have a year out - a well constructed year out could be amazing in terms of development.

They could leave that school and transfer to somewhere with less pressure. Many comprehensives are still 11-16, then they go on to a college. No point in making your children unhappy. If it's not for them it's fine.

Our local schools maybe get one a year into Oxbridge . And that is after they were all hammered by Ofsted for routinely failing academically able children. If your school is pushing all children that way it is, conversely, failing those children who should flourish elsewhere. Including academically able children not suited for Oxbridge.
I'd move schools if I were you. See, even thickos know how to use the subjunctive mood.

Mmmm I turned down Oxford in favour of a university which suited me more. Not everyone is obsessed. I suggest you and your children visit other universities and cities to find ones which are a better fit. Just because that push is there doesn't mean you have to succumb to it.

My daughter goes to a very academic school where every year there is a few admitted to Oxbridge.
However they don't push this as the Holy grail, the G&T group are told to have an open mind regards what they want to do post A levels. Uni but not necessarily Oxbridge/RG or an apprenticeship.

So no not all schools push it.

I didn’t go to Oxbridge, but having talked about my uni experience with friends who went to Oxbridge, it actually is a superior education with far more challenge than even Russell Group in general, I can see why Oxbridge grads are highly prized by companies.

Where is the evidence that it is more competitive than when ‘the teachers’ went? I would imagine teachers range in age and some of the younger ones will have been there not that long ago, anyway.

Yes, an academic school will push Oxbridge (because it is the best, in general, although not for everyone or for all courses). I as a teacher will always push pupils to strive for the best they can attain, although I and most others would not suggest that anything else is a failure - and I work with the grades my pupils are likely to get when I suggest which unis might suit them, rather than encourage them to be unrealistic or aim too low).

TO be fair on OP I think it's a shame that a school can't be very academic (i.e. be an environment where hard working and academic students are well catered for) without being overly competitive. It's a shame that being academic is reduced to what can be translated on paper rather than the actual enjoyment of learning something new.

That's what very academic schools do. It's what you're paying for.

I don't like it either. But that's what they think parents want.

Oxbridge has two distinct benefits, to my mind:

1. can open up doors professionally (law/City firms which mainly recruit from there, and even in my profession an advantage at some schools when I’m applying for jobs) and networking

2. a very intense and academically demanding education while you are there.

Unless you know what you’re aiming for and it’s very competitive to get into (magic circle etc) then I wouldn’t be motivated by the former.

I would be, and was, highly motivated by the latter.

Then there’s the prestige but you’re only going to have that if you also want to make yourself objectionable by mentioning an Oxbridge degree often in social settings and become universally derided for being a show off, so I don’t see that as an advantage.

Scipio, there are few teachers beneath 40/50 who went to oxbridge. The ones most pushing for it are near retirement. Just looking up entry % success it can be seen that even 10 years ago it’s nothing like today.

Bottle i think you’re right in terms of what a school will use to sell itself to parents (numbers admitted to Oxbridge): it’s a shame and ultimately meaningless.

However, ‘actual enjoyment of learning something new’: in my experience the Oxbridge candidates are often the ones who want to go beyond the confines of the course and learn more for its own sake. It’s true that the less academically capable may too, but one of the things Oxbridge looks for is those who have a very strong interest in their chosen subject - interviews often help them weed out those who don’t, even if they are good on paper from the point of view of grades. Any school should open up its ‘Oxbridge’ sessions to those who are interested enough to give their free time to learn more, and all I’ve worked in have.

Toucan - can you give me your source? I am finding it hard to find statistics going back more than seven years.

Where is they mythical place? No one. Absolutely no one uses 'Oxbridge' IRL. FYI, DS went to a highly academic state grammar school where around 98% of pupils go RG, with around 25% of those at one of the Ancients. At no point have I ever been party to a conversation/lecture/information evening with the word 'Oxbridge' bandied about.

I wonder what that decrease in entry % success really means. Is it to do with a population boom in certain cohort years (but the population % applying remaining the same), or is it that a greater % of A Level students are applying to Oxbridge? Or a bit of both? Anyone know?

Thesearepearls you make a good point about academic schools not pushing US/European universities, but I would imagine it’s the relative lack of experience with sending candidates to those universities that hinders the school, compared to the pipeline that is set up for top British institutions.

As for the gap year thing, depending what has been planned I imagine a lot of people would rather not take on extra debt travelling or interning/working for free when they could just get stuck into uni. Equally, if I took a 15 month break from work now, there’s a real risk I’d never want to return! I could see it being the same for students.