To be furious with DS

[theluckiest]

This is a ridiculous sibling tiff and I've had enough...

DS1 (11) and DS(8) generally get on brilliantly. They both do a sport where DS1 has responsibility for helping younger ones.

Last nights session, DS2 was being a bit silly and made a silly comment about his brother to another little one. DS1 was livid - he felt embarrassed and I can see why he was cross but he completely overreacted. Stomping about, chucking things...full on preteen strop.

Put it down to tiredness, hormones, embarrassment...DS2 apologised & both went to bed.

This morning all seemed calm. DS2 quiet but DS1 much happier. Dropped DS1 at sports class this am and asked DS2 if he was ok. Apparently, DS1 told him this morning that he wished he was dead

I'm fucking furious. I'm going to pick up DS1 shortly. What should I say to him?

Meh. You are applying adult values to young child talk. I know it's not nice and your oldest needs to think, retract and apologise but siblings do say these things occasionally. By the way, have you got proof ?

It sounds like the balance is off. DS2 was a little shit but that was ok. DS1 was a shit and you are furious!

Is there any reason for that? If it's an ongoing thing I can see why DS1 would say something like that. Play my second fiddle to a sibling for a long time can make you wish such things.

Thanks for all your comments - I think I was rather taken aback that DS1 had said a spiteful comment to his brother when they normally rub along well . And had said it today when he had calmed down, not when last night he was (understandably) angry.

I wasn't actually there when this all kicked off yesterday - I got the fallout when they all got back home Think you're right, DS1 was embarrassed and at the age when this is about the worst thing. He knows he is very loved and supported - his little brother apologised and also knows that he shouldn't have been silly.

Anyway, I'll talk to DSs later. I fear this may be puberty kicking in!! Yep, I too have heard that gin helps...

Well, we can all see which DS you favour over the other OP.

bitter elder sibling here

I don’t think that showing your brother up in front of your friends when he’s in a position of responsibility is “silliness” though. I think it’s far, far worse than what DS1 said tbh.

Anyway, I'll talk to DSs later. I fear this may be puberty kicking in!!

Yes invalidate his feelings further.

Are you going to say anything to DS2? Or just going to continue minimising his part in this?

"They both do a sport where DS1 has responsibility for helping younger ones." I think you can use the 'responsibility' bit to your advantage. Kicking off in a public place where he has some responsibilities will get him in trouble and could lose him his status as a helped. He needs to learn to control.

Is he in charge of ds2's age group, if so I can see why ds2 might have his nose out of joint but I am guessing (hoping) ds1 helps with the end younger kids. I'd use the being nice at the sports hall/respect in the sportto encourage your ds1 to act better.

Just to make you feel better my ds at 6 said he wished my dd (then 12 would die), I was in tears because it was in the context of a massive family row on holiday!

Good luck.

Do you ever support your oldest?

DS1 needs some hugs and extra quality time with you. What DS2 said was not nice and he’s feeling hurt.

I remember selling my younger sister (by 2 years) that I wished she was dead. It came purely from frustration of being constantly told that I was older so should know better or that I was in charge but her not doing anything I asked. She would constantly come into my room and not leave, then I was told to be nice to her and she wasn't causing any trouble.

Could it be frustration and actually it wasn't a one off from DS2? Was DS2 actually told off or punished for making the comment?

I told my sibling this a few times as a child/teen. My parents told me it was a horrible thing to say and no doubt if necessary punished me further. I normally had a good reason for being angry with her (although obviously not for saying something that horrible - of course one doesn’t fully understand or mean it at that age). I was also an older sibling (and felt my sister was the favoured one). We are very close now so I can’t have been that bad.

I'm certainly not 'invalidating' DSs feelings at all. I understand exactly how he's feeling...I am painfully aware of and remember how it felt to be embarrassed at his age. He had a lot of hugs & support last night as I could see how tearful and angry he was when they got back.

DS2 certainly hasn't got away with upsetting his brother either. I'm not sure where you got that from.

And you're right, DS1 loves his brother really - he's very protective of him at school. However annoying he may sometimes be!

Anyway, thanks all - they both seem to be avoiding one another at the moment. I'm certainly not going in all guns blazing as we've all calmed down but I will speak (and listen) to them later.

Don't forget to tell him it's ok to think and feel all sorts of murderous things. It's not ok to act on them or tell people in anger to hurt them.
What is he allowed to do in anger, since the little one gets away with it?
Anger can be a good thing, but needs to be channelled into something constructive, good to talk about it.

Hang on, so you weren't there for the first instance and you weren't there for the second - all you have to go on is your younger child dropping his brother in it by telling you that DS1 said he "wished he was dead"??

Instantly, you believe that DS2 is the injured party and are "furious" with DS1 for daring to say anything mean to his brother? What about DS2 being a little sneak and running to mummy to get his big brother in trouble?

Usually I I'm not on the side of "don't tell tales" but in this instance I think that your DS2 is the one who should get a talking to:

He wound his brother up and said embarrassing things about him to his friends. DS1 is understandably upset - you blame hormones and think an apology from DS2 is enough to put the matter behind you all.

The next morning, he comes crying to you that DS1 - apparently completely out of the blue and with no contributory actions from DS2 - told him he wished he was dead. DS2 is all tremble-lipped and hurt and you want to steam into DS1 and tell him off for and be all furious with him? Without even hearing his side of the story?

It's SO OBVIOUS how much you favour DS2 - apparently he can do no wrong in your eyes?

My two have said they wish the other was dead or that they could sell the other to another family or that they are sure that other is adopted....and they are 17 and 13 so definitely should know better.

They are horrible things to say, they don’t really mean it, they are made to apologise and we move on. I would suggest that you don’t make too big a deal out of it but make sure that they both know how much their words have hurt thw other one.

I think you need to prepare yourself for more of this. 3 years is a big gap at that age - I'm guessing DS1 is starting secondary in a couple of months? He is probably a bit stressed about that. An 8yo brother is going to suddenly seem very babyish to him. Especially if DS2 knows how to wind him up. Give him a bit of space.

the reason people feel you are minimising is because of the language you use - it is different for each boy.
DS2 is a 'little one' he was 'a bit silly' but DS1 'completely overreacted' you are 'livid' with DS1 but not with DS2. DS1's anger and upset is due to 'hormones and puberty' - don;t dismiss it at such, he has a good reason to be angry with his brother. You may think he is over reacting but he has a reason - it's not 'hormones', his brother behaved badly and embarrassed him.

The thing is - if lots of people on this thread have picked up that you dismiss DS1's feelings('overreacted' - not reacted, was upset, was hurt -) and excuse DS2's behaviour by minimising language (a 'bit silly' - not silly or very silly or rude or unkind - ) because of how you phrase things, then you can guarantee your DS1 will have picked it up too.

Agree with Kurri - there is less than 2 years between my sibling and me, yet as a child and teen (and adult!) I was expected to deal in a mature and sensible way with any annoyances, because my sibling was ‘so little!’ My parents would absolutely not admit this even today. They didn’t see it - but I did, and so did my sibling (who, to be fair, noticed the negatives about being the younger one too, more than I did!).

In our case, we have both gone on to have some real issues due to filling the roles of ‘strong stable carer’ and ‘baby who should be looked after’. Maybe that wasn’t all to do with our upbringing but I think some of it was. I think as parents we should question our reactions to our children and see if we are behaving with partiality unfairly.

Easy for me to say as I have one child.

His feelings in the moment are valid coz his own, but some feelings are better left unsaid & unexpressed. Apology & move on.

My 14yo has just started to realise how annoying little brother is... actually, the little brother is 14yo's fave person in whole world. But 9yr olds ARE annoying.

DS2 is a 'little one' he was 'a bit silly' but DS1 'completely overreacted' you are 'livid' with DS1 but not with DS2. DS1's anger and upset is due to 'hormones and puberty' - don;t dismiss it at such, he has a good reason to be angry with his brother. You may think he is over reacting but he has a reason - it's not 'hormones', his brother behaved badly and embarrassed him.

I agree with this OP it was your own use of language that made us think you are minimising, I still think it to be honest.

The reason people are saying you’re favouring DS2 is the language you use

DS2 was “a bit silly”, DS1 “over reacted” and it’s all down to hormones (not the fact that his brother was acting like a little shit).

Whereas you talk about being fuming with DS1 because of something DS2 claims he said. And still blaming hormones rather than the real cause which is that DS2 was being mean and embarrassing DS1 in front of his friends.

Obviously we’re only seeing a snapshot. And yes you will have different expectations of the boys due to their age, but 8 is more than old enough to know they what he did was wrong. He’s not a toddler, he was deliberately winding his brother up and goading him into reacting, then running to you telling tales when he got it. (And yes I’m the older sibling who’s younger sister used to push my buttons, deliberately, until I lashed out and then go crying to mummy).

theluckiest

You may not be invalidating his feelings but you have him down as being guilty without finding out the his side of what happened.

Yep, I agree lljkk - apologise and move on!

In fact, I think my AIBU title is prob a bit misleading. Maybe furious wasn't the right word. It's so unlike DS1 to be unkind. Taken aback maybe. And no, I know he doesn't mean it.

I can see why he lashed out. I think some of your comments have made me think actually. DS2 has an activity later so I'll take DS1 for a hot choc, spend a bit of quality time with him. I know full well how annoying his brother can be...think the fact that he's off to secondary school as some of you said, is highlighting the age gap.

Oh my. I have 4 siblings and we all said lots of things we don’t mean.
We would forget and move past them very quickly.
I really wouldn’t interfere too much. You weren’t there..
If they normally rub along ok, then they’ll work it out themselves.
The eldest shouldn’t say such harsh things but it will teach the younger one how strongly the older one feels to being treated that way.
Your eldest sounds like a nice boy- being responsible for younger ones etc and helping them. I’d leave him alone..

It is quite striking from the way you've spoken about it on here that your DS2 is your favourite gets away with being annoying - it might be that obvious to DS1 as well, so the hot choc later would be a good idea.

If DS2 has a tendency to be annoying, it's not up to DS1 to deal with it - you need to come down a bit harder on DS2 and stop him doing it! If he's feeling hurt this morning then he knows how DS1 felt last night!