To hate how you're just expected to be okay.

[Mangoo]

I've had 2 miscarriages in the space if 6 months and I'm just so f*cking down! The last happened in April and I'm just expected to be okay now but I'm really not.

My mum and DP have been great but it's almost as if they think I should be okay now. I know it's because they don't like seeing me upset all the time but I don't know how I'm supposed to just switch this off and 'get on with it'. I went from quite enjoying my job to just loathing being there because all I want to do is be at home. I have lots of colleagues around me having babies or showing me pictures of their grandkids etc... My own DP has kids from ex relationship and I've gone from really enjoying watching him with them to it being like a knife in my chest everytime I come home to him playing with them on the sofa etc...

I'm really struggling and I can't help but feel so lonely :(

So not to drip feed I'm in my mid twenties and my mother had a chromosomal issue when TTC and ended up having a large number of miscarriages and a still birth which absolutely terrifies me as I'm convinced I'll be the same which I think is giving an extra dynamic to this whole thing.

I know you can't just sit and wallow in sadness but I bloody want to and hate being told 'you have to deal with this' as if it's so easy to switch off :(

Oh it's horrid I had 3 in 9 months and could barely drag myself out of bed after the third, I was just so miserable and there seemed to be babies and pregnant women everywhere I looked and it was just shit. I actually had counselling in the end as I was so messed up. Was offered by my then work as a staff benefit and it did help although in the end the only thing which did make it go away was getting and staying pregnant.

In a way the 3rd one was a relief as it meant we could go for testing but the tests showed nothing and consultant just told me to take a break for 6 months. Easier said than done. But I then got shit faced in misery at a party and lo and behold DS1 was conceived. That was over 10 years ago now and it does feel like a very distant memory.

All I can say is look after yourself, it's a really raw and emotional time and well meaning idiots will say stupid things and all your friends and colleagues will fall pregnant around you and it feels awful but miscarriage really is so so common. I don't have any experience of still birth but hopefully your mum's history will be noted and addressed.

Oh and what helped for me was having a piece of jewellery made to remember the three babies by. Naming them didn't work for me personally but this did. That said, I couldn't even tell you where the piece of jewellery is. I suspect one of my now 3 children has nicked it!!

I’m not sure you ever completely get over having a miscarriage. I had one 4 years ago and have had a baby since. I cried about it the other day, it’s shitty shit shit shit all round. There is nothing good or positive to be found from having a miscarriage and so people struggle to help.
Talking to people who have been through it themselves did help. It made it easier for me to process the more I talked about it out loud.
Sorry you are going through this OP

I'm so sorry to hear you're going through this. It's incredibly difficult whether you have 1 mc or more. I had 1 (a blighted ovum) and after 2 weeks of me still being tearful and miserable, my (now ex)dh said I just needed to "get over it already". I should have known then what a bastard he was.

Anyway, take as long as you need to come to terms with it, there's no rules on this. And good luck to you.

So sorry you are going through this Mangoo I lost 2 in 6 months too, and it truly was the darkest and saddest I have ever been. All I can say is it truly is okay to not be okay. Don't ever feel you should hide your sadness. They were bereavements and you are grieving. It's important that your loved ones realise this. Grief is a shit. There is no timescale to stick to and no trajectory to follow. It does what it wants and you have to go with it. If you bottle it up , it will come out in the end.

If you truly feel you cannot be at work, don't go. My lovely GP put pregnancy related on my sick note when I had a breakdown.

Look into counselling if you feel you have no outlet or validation for the rage and sadness and bewilderment that comes with grief. I was skeptical but it was the best self-care I could have given myself. It truly helped.

Be gentle and kind with yourself and don't suffer those who can't be gentle with you right now. Miscarriage grief is truly awful shitty isolating hell. You don't have to keep it inside.

I'm so sorry you're going through it

Morning all. Thank you so much for all the comments. I can't believe the support on this place it's really wonderful.

Again I'm so sorry you've all felt and been through this too but I certainly don't feel so alone this morning reading your messages.

I can relate to so many things on here. Especially the feeling as though pregnant women and babies are following you everywhere!! It's as though every single film I watch starts with a woman finding out she's pregnant and everyone's oh so happy or this bloody pampers advert going round at the minute which is just 2 long minutes of women giving birth right on my TV screen. I know it's not the world's problem but I can't help but feel a sting every time like I'm just some forgotten about breed of woman who's feelings don't matter if you get what I mean.

Work is something I feel I just have to deal with now. I took 3 days off the first time and then 2 weeks the 2nd. I was signed off for 3 but felt too guilty taking the last so I went in. When I told my boss I got 'ooo okay well yes 3 weeks might have been a bit excessive'... (She's usually very nice and has been so kind throughout this whole thing so I found this quite hurtful)

@bertie thank you so much I will send you a PM. My condolences regarding the funeral as well by the way I'm trying hard not to take translocation as a sort of death sentence in my mind. I've found that Google is absolutely NOT my friend in this whole thing. I'm very scared of getting an insensitive doctor who just say something along the lines of 'look the chances aren't great...' I don't know how I'd get back to normal life ever again after hearing something like that.

I want to reply to all of your messages individually but I've read and taken on board every single one - thank you so much. You're all so strong and I'm so grateful you've taken the time to share your stories I'm so happy for those that had their babies in the end and for those who haven't yet I wish you every single ounce of luck and love and sincerely hope you do

Well I passed my first grim milestone today of my (unaware) friend announcing excitedly their new pregnancy and going on and on about the scans they've been too etc... I honestly wanted the ground to swallow me.

Honestly I'm happy for them but that is the hardest I've ever had to work to try and smile and not cry. I had to leave work after they'd told me I feel crushed.

Ah sorry, it's so hard especially when people don't realise.

Be kind to yourself, it's the weekend, eat some shit food, do what you feel like

I definitely think it isn't taken as seriously as it should be a lot of the time. After my first MC I was OK for a few months but then it hit me out of the blue and looking back I was very clearly depressed but no one seemed to notice, even though I was pretty open about how I was feeling. My parents and partner seemed oblivious and that made me feel even more alone so it was a vicious cycle.
I don't really have any advice except if I were you I'd try to get another appointment as waiting to get pregnant again just to suffer a miscarriage before going through with it won't make you feel any better and could be avoidable. Don't you think the waiting and wondering and worrying is more difficult than just knowing at the end of the day? X

I'm sorry op. Miscarriages are really hard.

I was referred for tests and to a great obstetrician who specialised in recurrent miscarriage. My next pregnancy I was given all sorts of drugs etc to sustain the pregnancy, prevent problems etc.

I know it's scary but once you know what you're dealing with you can put a plan in place.

I’ve had 7 miscarriages and now 10 years on I can say I’m ok. I rationise it by thinking that DS2 wouldn’t have happened otherwise. It’s devastating and I still have irrational hatred towards children born when mine should have been born, but recognise it for the nonsense that it is. Be kind to yourself and pursue medical avenues to seek a healthy pregnancy - it will happen with the right guidance. Lots of love and vibes moving forward x

I am so sorry for your sadness. I have a balanced translocation. 3:11.

I have had miscarriages. I have also had 2 happy healthy babies. who are now at primary school.

With a translocation, the babies future is decided at the moment of conception. it totally depends if the chromosomes match. There is nothing at all you can do to change the outcome.

Which, whilst in some ways can sound bleak. It also takes away any blame or guilt.

Your mum has chromosome issues, she also has you. So her ( and possibly your inherited ) translocation does not rule out having a healthy child.

I was offered IVF with PGD to ensure that a balanced embryo was implanted. I chose to continue to try naturally as I conceived easily. But there are options.

I was closely monitored during all my pregnancies.

There is a balanced translocation Yahoo group which I found an invaluable support during my journey to be a mum.

I totally empathise with all the emotions that you are going through.

That all consuming desire to be a mum is relentless.

For me I realised that I wanted my own children desperately, but that needn't impact on my enjoyment of other people's. I became a favourite 'aunty' to my nieces and nephews and friends children and really enjoyed them for who they were.

I used to tell myself constantly - this time next year I will be pregnant with my forever baby. It took the pressure off a bit and ment I could enjoy my life today knowing that it would happen sometime.

I also made the decision to enjoy every moment of my pregnancies. As for some, being safe inside me was the only life they got and I wanted to know that I had loved and cherished them.

There is nothing easy about losing a pregnancy and all the hopes and dreams that go along side it. These are simply ways I made the time slightly more bearable.

Please be kind to yourself, get through however you can. There are many people who don't get it. Also many who do. Just pick those you talk to about it carefully so you get the support that you need and not unhelpful comments.

Sending a very big hug. I am so, so sorry you have lost your babies and are worrying about what the future holds. Wishing you every happiness in the future.

@dontknow I totally get what you mean about wanting to know in case it could be prevented however for me (if I have the same as my mum which is likely) there is nothing that can be done to prevent a miscarriage as Pananny has said. Some people like to have the knowledge as it gives them power over the situation but I suppose for me I just think 'this is my situation, hearing it in facts and statistics from a Dr isn't going to change the outcome'. There is no miracle drug you can take for BT. It's essentially hitting it lucky from what I can tell.

I'm also petrified of being told by a Dr that it's unlikely to happen for me EVER as this would tip me over into serious depression I know it would. Logically I know this is irrational as the people I've heard from with BT have all said how wonderfully supportive and hopeful their Drs have been but it's just a serious worry for me.

@Pananny thanks for sharing your story with me. honestly it gives me so much hope to hear from people with BT who have been successful. Did you feel more positive about your chances after visiting with your Dr about your translocation? As I said about my greatest fear is being told there is essentially no chance and I may as well give up now. At least if I don't know I can still hope!

As for the IVF with PGD I know this is an option but as I understand it only certain people are offered on the NHS and this is not something I feel I'll ever be able to afford privately. I worry that my partner having children already will affect me meeting the criteria for this even though I have none of my own. Which seems really evil to me but I have read this online (I know I shouldn't Google!).

It is relentless. I feel it weighing over me every day. There isn't an hour that goes by where I don't think about my situation in some negative way it's absolutely consuming.

I'm trying desperately not to let myself slip into depression / more stress because of it as I know this will not help my situation or my relationship either.

Thanks for taking the time to post all I appreciate every peice of support at the min! X

@Zacsmum I'm so sorry to hear what you went through but so glad you got your son in the end. How awful that time must have been for you. I honestly worry for my mental health if I were to go though many more as these 2 have hit me so hard :(

@itscurtains thanks for taking the time to post. I take it your last pregnancy was successful? I'm really glad for you! It's such a lonely road I'm finding as no one ever really talks about it. It's all very hush hush which adds even more weight to it.

Hi Mangoo

www.rarechromo.org/media/information/Other/Balanced%20translocations%20FTNP.pdf

Unique are a superb organisation this is a link to their info on BT.

I had 3 miscarriages prior to 12 weeks before I was tested.

To put is very very simply - and it really is much more complex every time we get pregnant there are 3 options - baby with complete normal chromosomes - Healthy baby.

Baby with balanced Chromosomes - so in my case parts of 3 and 11 have swapped but are all correct. Healthy baby who may have issues conceiving.

Baby with unbalanced chromosomes (which has many options within that so mine might had 2 x big breaks of 3 and no 11 or 1 Big break and 1 little break of 11 but no 3 etc etc.) This means that the baby does not have all the chromosome information necessary to develop, so may die in the womb, die at birth or be disabled.

As most Balanced translocations have unique breaks - I have never found anyone with the same 2 chromosomes affected let alone the same breaks within the pair it is impossible to predict the outcome.

Generally people with large breaks are more likely to miscarry then have a live disabled child. Some chromosomes are recognisable as to the part they play in development, so a certain chromosome with a break may mean that it is likely to affect brain development.

But it is a very new science and lots of mystery.

I had a karyotype test which discovered the BT after 3 M/c. This is an expensive test and not generally given in the first round of tests. As other more common issues are generally to blame.

As you already know your mum has a BT I would specifically ask for this test.

I have 2 children, 1 has normal chromosomes and 1 shares my BT.
We assume that the losses we have had were unbalanced but only had those I lost in the 2nd trimester tested. Miscarriages are common so it is possible that some of them did not develop for non related issues.

It is really important to remember that you actually might not have your mum's BT at all. My sister and brother have normal chromosomes. 1 has 3 children and no losses the other has had many non explained losses.

So it is feasible that you have normal chromosomes, but have had 2 devastating losses that are not due to a BT.

It is also feasible that you have inherited a BT and each pregnancy will have a higher chance of ending in sadness. BUT you are alive. So there is proof that people with the BT can grow healthily.

My consultant appointment was pretty hideous. I was told that any baby I had would be 'incompatible with life.' That my husband should be sterilised and all my family tested to see where the BT originated.

He was very very wrong. I joined a number of support group s and did lots of my own research. My parents didn't want to be tested as they did not want to feel one was to blame, they are also only children so I have no cousins that could be affected and their parents came from enormous families - 6,8,11 and 12, so the logistics of contacting all second cousins was impossible.

So I have a BT. I had many years of heart ache and totally understand the place that you are in now. I also have 2 healthy, happy girls. One who may have struggles with their own fertility, but who knows what medical science will be able to do in 20 years.

I really think you need to hold on to the fact that you are alive. No dr can say you can't have a healthy baby. If you have inherited a BT it will be identical to your mums.

I think I would want to go to the appointment with that knowledge. Find out for certain if you have a BT - they may have more info about the specific chromosomes that when your mum was diagnosed.

Next time may be THE time, one day it will be.

In the meantime try not to feel too negative about other people's pregnancies, who knows what their struggles have been. One day it will be you with the big round tummy, totally oblivious to a lady close by wishing she could be you.

Sending strength and kindness.

@Pananny thank you! Honestly.

It really helps to hear from people who made it to the other side.

I am (as much as I hate to admit) a very 'glass half empty' kind of person with everything so I know I am adding more worry and stress to myself than necessary. I really need to learn to take comfort in the positive things as you say... I am here. My mother still had me as did my grandparents (who we also suspect have the same BT but managed to have 3 children). I need to learn to take comfort in that and not be so hard on myself.

I have a lot of guilt for what I'm putting my partner through. Whilst I know it isn't my fault, it is my body and I can't shake the feeling of guilt that comes with that.

I was thinking the other day actually about how you just don't know another woman's situation. I was sat feeling very sorry for myself that some people just get it so easy and then stopped myself and thought how the heck would I know if they had! No one knows about the troubles I'm having. There is a distinct lack of support in RL due to the simple fact that it's such a secretive subject. It's a shame.

My mum's miscarriages were all before 12 weeks fortunately.

Her stillbirth was actually unrelated to the BT and was an extremely unfortunate and unlucky birth complication. As awful as it was I also hold on to the fact that if she hadn't have been so unfortunate with that pregnancy then it would have been another success in addition to me. (That sounds awful!)

Hello OP. In answer to your question, my final pregnancy worked out, but was very premature (a long story) so a miracle in a number of ways.

We did have a lot of help early pregnancy though (aspirin, metformin, HCG & blood thinning injections, cervical stitch etc etc) - all because I'd had the tests so we knew what we were dealing with.

Thanks Curtains.

I am regretting not going to my appointment now. At the time it had only just happened and I was just too afraid to face it. I'd hardly dragged myself out of bed and I just wasn't up to going. I feel a bit silly now but I'll be asking my partner to drag me there kicking and screaming if necessary next time!

It's time to stop wallowing in self pity I think and dust myself off ready for the fight!

It is hard to face up to the fact that there may be a problem, but as soon as you know you can find out what can be done to manage it. And research is moving forward all the time so things that were unexplained even 10 years ago can be managed now.

Good luck.

My sister is going through a similar thing, OP, and I'm taking your post as a reminder to keep being kind and thoughtful towards her even as time goes on. As a family, we're genetically inclined to release multiple eggs (so we get pregnant fairly easily and multiples are common) but also have issues "holding onto" the pregnancies. I count myself lucky to have only had two miscarriages and to have got pregnant and given birth to healthy babies quite soon afterwards as each of my sister has had more miscarriages than that and not been so fortunate.

All I can say is that you should have a chat with them, and a professional (especially if you're having guilt about talking about it to close ones all the time), and let them know that it's really fucking hard for you. Tell them. You're struggling and deserve to be helped.

Sending you lots of love and , OP. Hope you're feeling better soon (but try not to feel the pressure to).

I'm sorry you are going through this. It's horrible. I was in a similar situation a few years ago. Two things helped me. I contacted the Miscarriage Association for general advice, they have some good guidance on their website. I also got counselling as after having my ds (pretty soon after 2 miscarriages) I had PND. A big part of that was trying to squash down my grief about the losses.

Give yourself all the time you need to grieve. x

I'm glad to hear you are feeling better and more able to search for information :)

Do join the FB group I sent you or the yahoo group Pananny mentioned, whichever format works best for you. I strongly believe these groups are a lifesaver because it's just so helpful to have so many people all in the same place who know what it's like. It can also be a useful buffer just in case you do ever get bad advice from a HCP which unfortunately does happen (this is part of why we had to wait years for a referral).

Today we got signed off by the best gynecologist in the area as he is now satisfied that we should be fine with the normal checks from my normal one (who is also fantastic and lovely TBF) and they both want us to meet with the consultant in the hospital I decide to give birth at before the birth in order to get them a full understanding of the situation, as we decided not to have amniocentesis, so we only have scans to go on which shows this baby seems to be healthy. Funnily enough the one who I saw today said he thought the paediatrician should do extra checks on the baby to see that he's healthy whereas my usual one is more concerned that they don't rush the baby off for any extra testing because she does not see any reason to be concerned. But in any case having a meeting to discuss this means that we will be able to work out what we want. Unfortunately in Germany it's illegal to test a child who is not showing signs/symptoms of any disorder so provided (touch wood) he is healthy, we may not ever find out if our child is a carrier or not, it will be his decision when he is older. But I am not worried because if and when our children (as I'm confident we can and will have more than one) decide to have children, we'll be able to pass on everything that we know, and as Pananny says, there might well be advances in medical and reproductive science by then anyway.

I started talking to people about it once I was able to without being too upset - it's totally your choice but I found it was helpful and more people understood than I realised (which is sad in itself).

@rosamore sorry to hear your sister is in this situation. I would say yes absolutely be kind and supportive (im sure you are anyway!) even as time goes on. I've found the people around me who know have kind of 'forgotten' (probably not the right word) that I'm still very very hurt. I hate to constantly bring it up the longer time goes on so it would be nice if someone recognised without me having to say I was still pain.

Very glad to hear that you've been successful though. It's shocked me just how many women go through problems of this kind. I thought it was easy for everyone but me but it just goes to show you have no idea what that person it seemed so easy for has been through before that point.

@KM99 sorry to hear you've been where I am but again it's so lovely to hear from people who gone on to have their babies. It's what I need to hear when I'm feeling low.

Sorry about your PND. I bet that was really hard after everything that came before as well. I've been considering some form of counselling more and more recently as I'm genuinely concerned how I'd cope if it were to happen again. I'm a very emotional person naturally and I think I'd struggle to try and detach from any new pregnancy in order to save myself any hurt when I lose it. I think talking it through with someone outside of my situation would be really beneficial so I'll look into that I think.

@bertie thanks for coming back! Your posts and messages have been so helpful to me as you know :) I am feeling a little stronger today so I think it's time to look into the groups you and Pananny mentioned.

Great to hear you've been signed off! And good luck with your meeting. I bet you can't wait now to meet him! I'm sure he'll be happy and healthy :) you sound like you're in great hands with your gyne too.

Me and my partner have discussed this all previously and realistically I think we are likely only to have one child. He has two from a previous relationship and whilst he's absolutely excited about the prospect of becoming a dad again he is concerned about the idea of having more than one more though he of course is happy to discuss it with me if and when the time comes that I want to. For me at the moment I'll be happy with one child. Being an only child myself I've never come from a huge family and I have my two lovely DSS' too so I think I can be happy at that.

So sorry for your losses .

I had two missed miscarriages last year. The first one almost killed me, I haemorrhaged and needed emergency surgery. The next one was only discovered at the 12 week scan after no bleeding or anything. Both times were equally traumatic and horrific. I agree that people don’t seem to understand the pain or grief of miscarriage. I am currently 21 weeks pregnant with a healthy baby but I still grieve for the ones I lost and cry sometimes.

It’s not something you just get over at all and I wish more people were understanding of this. Not enough is understood about miscarriage, it seems to be the elephant in the room.

@mouse thanks for sharing your experience. Again so nice to hear from someone who's been there and is now on the other side (or nearly for you :) ) keep the good stories coming they honestly pick me up so much!

I absolutely agree about it being the elephant in the room. I bet we'd be very surprised to know just how many people we come into contact with daily have been through the same or at least something similar.