Baby 'advice' frustration

[merville]

My lo (1st) is now 8 months old and I've tried to take on board current nhs/who guidance while not following it slavishly,

I have to say I have been on the receiving end of more unsolicited 'advice', questioning and inappropriate behaviour from family and strangers in the last 8 months than I have ever experienced before in my life.

"Do you not give her a dummy? Is would help her sleep/settle her".
No, from day one I tried to but she just dropped it out of her mouth & didn't really suck it, I put it back in, she let it drop .. after 20 times I gave up. Cue skeptical look.

"Do you not give her finger food?"
Yes, she gets finger foods as well (had brought packets because in a last minute rush cause dh forgot about a 2 hr trip to visit his Dad).

Total strangers walk up to you and ask to nurse/cuddle your baby in bar/restaurants "I could settle her for you; I'm a great cuddler, I love cuddling babies, I cuddle all the babies in the church group".
Ah, you're alright (inwardly thinking, yeah but we're not in your church group).

Other shop/cafe worker, having chatted for 2 mins, says she'll hold baby while I have tea (holds her arms out so it's really difficult to refuse), then says 'we'll go for a walk and give Mummy peace" and heads off around the (large) shop/cafe while my lo casts me anxious glances and I wonder if she's going to break into full screaming.

The 3 v's 6 month feeding issue - I didn't even wait til 6 months but had intense pressure from family members etc. to feed from 3 months. When discussing the current advice at the weekend ("Did your mother wait til 6 months to feed you.??!!").

Just a very few examples in a long and varied litany.

Anyone else like to join in with a rant or moan on this subject?

Follow on milk is just dried cows milk basically! It’s not nutritionally complete so just for extra calories, unless you are 100% sure your little one is getting everything they need from food each day then forget the follow on crap and stick with first stage formula there’s a reason it’s more expensive

I try really hard not to do this, but am aware that my attempts to empathise turn into reminiscences and may sound like unsolicited advice DD is 8yo and we used to get all of the above.

My little boy is 2 in 10 days and still having a 9oz bottle of first stage formula at morning and bedtime with no plans to stop as he suffers from GORD and allergies so consequently has episodes every few weeks of vomiting multiple times a day. He has it to help him keep his weight up and ensure he’s getting all the nutrients he needs as recommended by his specialist consultant

I remember all that.
I was grateful early on though after a long walk with DD in a sling we got to a nice pub and DD,a fewonths old, wouldn't settle and a woman offered to walk up and down with her which she did while I enjoyed a cool drink to refortified myself.She just jiggled DD,who stopped crying and laughed.
The advice on feeding and weaning was maddening but you get through it all.

Sometimes the advice can be a bit wearing, but for me, strangers showing an interest in DD was a bit of a lifesaver when she was little. I had to give up going to baby groups as she really couldn't cope with more than a few minutes in an unfamiliar place, other babies, loud noise etc, and she certainly wouldn't nap or feed at them, but a few minutes' chat with someone out and about was do-able and was sometimes the only adult interaction I got all day I spent a fortune on tea and cake

Get used to it OP. My DS is 3 and the advice still keeps on coming!

@merville I assumed it was because the shops can't do offers/promotions on milk designed (able) to replace breastfeeding because of NHS guidance. Follow on milk comes with the disclaimer its designed to be used as part of a weaning diet from 6 months so they are able to put promotions on.

@muncheysmummy is there actually any problem to follow on milk? DD is thriving, happy and sleeps through (mostly) so I'm reluctant to change things that are working. She's also finally returned to the 50th centile where she was born after dropping to the 9th whilst I was breastfeeding. Weaning is going v slowly but she's getting there.

Follow on milk is not just dried cows milk nor is it a 'scam' it contains twice as much iron as stage 1 milk and you can get it on offer/get points on your loyalty cards for buying it. Pro breastfeeding groups hate this because they don't want formula to actually be affordable and they really don't want it pointed out that babies require iron supplementation after 6 months because they like to peddle the myth that 'food for fun is just for fun' and breastmilk is all babies need. So breastfeeding campaigners can often be found sticking their beaks into discussions about formula with this 'useful' advice about sticking to stage 1 milk.

People also get confused between stage 1/2/3. Stage 3 milk is growing up milk for 12 months plus and that is not necessary because cows milk does the job for that age just fine with an added multivitamin.

As for the OP. Life was ever such, you need to learn to say no if you don't want people cuddling your baby. And dare I say it, maybe consider that sometimes your family are giving you advice that might actually be useful to you so don't just dismiss them out of hand.

'Food before one is just for fun' of course for myself

Oh don't worry, soon they'll be telling you the baby is:

Far too big to sit in the baby seat in the car, won't you put her forward facing?? (Errrr - no)

Much too old to be waking up at night, time to sleep train (if you want, but she'll get there)

Behind because she isn't crawling yet (crawling isn't even a developmental milestone)

So advanced because she says mamamamamama or dadadadada (don't be too flattered, it's babble)

In need of shoes (when she can't even walk)

It doesn't matter if you use follow on or first infant formula. They are both pretty strongly regulated unlike the milks for 12 months plus which can be full of sugar. Follow on has no more sugar than first milk, and it contains just as many nutrients (Yes more if you count the extra iron). I've no idea why some breastfeeding advocates are so staunchly against it. I can't imagine it actually is about not wanting formula to be affordable, though.

You are more likely to need the iron supplementation when FF but follow on formula isn't better than breastmilk in terms of the iron it contains, that's all the point is. I accept this gets miscommunicated, though.

It is not a scam but it is a workaround. The UK subscribes to the breastmilk substitutes marketing code which means it's illegal to market milks for babies under 6 months as health goals promote exclusive BF for the first 6 months. Promotions include loyalty points and multibuy offers.

Therefore the formula companies take the same product, add some iron to it and market it as a totally different one, albeit with very similar packaging. This allows them to run advertisements, offer discounts etc on the 6m+ formula which they can't legally do for the first stuff. As this product is advertised and the infant stuff is not, some people think it's better or more suitable. All the NHS advice is saying is that it's not - not that it's worse or harmful. It's essentially the exact same thing but it may not be suitable for babies under 6 months.

Hungry baby formula is a different thing and has a different whey-casein ratio, which causes it to be digested more slowly which can make a baby feel full for longer, but can also cause them to become constipated especially if you use it for every feed. If you like this is "old style" formula whereas modern first infant milks are designed to be very easy on the tummy and suitable for newborns. When I had DS ten years ago hungry baby milk was advised as a way to hold off on weaning for a baby who demanded a lot of feeds or tried to feed so much they were regularly sick. Before this it used to be advised for night feeds to stretch the baby out further. I'm not sure either of these things are advised any more, but hungry baby milk is still legal to sell.

Sometimes follow on formulas have an adjusted whey-casein ratio as well but I'm not sure how you'd check this.

Just smile and nod.

For everyone who feels like you op (that everyone is interfering )there will be someone who is desperate for their family to show any interest, would love a kind word or would appreciate a hand with their baby whilst they drink their tea. Also bare in mind that when you've had a baby and been through a stage it does give you some experience. Of course they shouldn't be critical but sometimes people are trying to help. I had to bite my tongue many times when my friend told me at length about the various issues with her baby, I really wanted to tell her what worked for us but didn't for fear of coming across as you describe.

But mainly just smile and nod.

Can I join in? DTs are 4 months old and our first:
DM is the best for it...

• they will sleep through the night if you give them some baby porridge
• let them sleep on their tummy
• give them water (when crying for feed) they might just be thirsty
• have you not let them have an ice cream in this hot weather 🙄

Bobbie & Bertie - Ah, I see (re. the promotions on follow on formula).

But I'm still confused about the iron issue. Buntyll asserts (in a tone that reminds me why I started this thread tbh) that follow on formula has twice the iron of first infant formula; but the nhs is saying that there's no advantage whatsoever to changing onto follow on milk and first infant is appropriate for the entire first year.
Is the nhs potentially causing health problems for 6 month - 1 year babies by recommending staying on a formula with less iron?

"And dare I say it, maybe consider that sometimes your family are giving you advice that might actually be useful to you so don't just dismiss them out of hand."

I'm curious as to where I gave the impression I dismiss anyone out of hand; I'm perfectly capable of considering if their advice has merit.

When the same lady (husband's step-mother) at the weekend questioned if lo gets finger food, stridently questioned waiting longer than 3 months to start solids, suggested I put talc in lo's creases due to the warm weather, announced we were giving the baby some of the E number filled chocolate cake we were having for my fil's birthday; I considered the merit of all of her 'suggestions'.
(And also considered the fact that she thinks it's appropriate to vape in enclosed spaces around babies & children (and before that smoke) that during her relationship with my fil he has become morbidly obese and now has to sit in a special chair, that she has raised a daughter who chose a jail-bird as her partner & father of her children & who has assaulted her (her mother) and her sister etc. etc.).

InDubious - you're right but of course it becomes frustrating after a while esp. while dealing with 8 months of cumulative sleep deprivation.

The other problem is that they're often not just giving advice - they're trying to do things or expecting you to do things there & then.

Zillcat - classics!

Mine were obsessed with juice rather than water;

"Are you not giving her juice"?
"Would she take some juice".
"Would you not give her some juice in a wee cup"?

The fact that juice is just mildly sugary water (not refined sugar but still without much nutritional value) is lost on them and you get so tired saying it diplomatically - usually several times.

Aaaaw I get what you mean about the advice, but I think you’re being a bit unkind about old and other people wanting to hold your babies.

It used to be the norm that a village raised a child.

I’m recently back from Turkey and I found a lot of the Turkish people made a huge fuss of my kids and interacted with them, picked them up and jostled them around etc. I find the same in Spain.
I think it’s much nicer that they make an effort with children and try and include them, rather than acting like children don’t exist like they do here often.

TBH, I don't know about the iron. If NHS are arguing that it's unnecessary then it probably is unnecessary. It might be based on the assumption that babies of 6m+ are also eating a balanced diet which would of course contain iron from meat, eggs, green vegetables. I don't know if twice is accurate or not - you could check the packaging I suppose.

I know there was a thing a few years back about how babies' iron stores from birth run out at around 6 months, and follow on formula having more iron than BM, but the iron in BM being more bioavailable. And then Cow and Gate ran an advertising campaign which specifically targeted this iron worry by contrasting how much iron is in their growing up milk (12m+) with how much iron is in cow's milk (not much... but who is drinking milk for their iron source?) and this ad ended up being banned as it was found to be misleading.

Should add I have no objection to juice and she's had it on many occasions; just kept having to reiterate to relatives that it wasn't that important nutritionally.

I think just looking at pure iron content is often misleading. For example, breastmilk has lower iron content than formula but this may not matter if the form it takes is one more easily absorbed by the body. Just like iron from meat can be more easily absorbed than iron from pulses and green vegetables unless you have the latter with a source of vitamin C. I suspect the additional iron in follow on milk is in excess of daily requirement for most babies that age, when added to iron they get from other, non-milk food sources.

Jim - yeah apparently they're like that in Italy as well; all the nonnas will be away with your child in 2 seconds flat.

I know it's pretty harmless, but I think they're often only considering that they want to hold a cute baby; not that the baby doesn't know them and may get distressed. Especially if they walk off with them; as I had one woman do.
Also that we live in a v different world - and parents may not feel wholly comfortable handing their baby to an essentially complete stranger.

There's also the feeling (and I may get flamed for this as ridiculous) that at this young age I'm already forcing my child to tolerate physical contact with people they don't know & don't really want to have contact with; and setting that as a unhealthy precedent re. their body/ boundaries.

I don't get advice but my SIL does infer quite frequently that DS has autism (because he doesn't sleep brilliantly at night, he's a year old, 10 months corrected and last I checked, that wasn't an indication of autism??), She's also said that he's insecure because he is quite clingy to me. That particularly upset me because he was premature and in hospital for a month and I worried myself sick about attachment issues with us leaving him in hospital every day

The unneeded advice I don't think will ever end. Even from people who have met my baby twice they feel they know best. I just say ok and do what i feel is best as i know I'm capable of looking after my baby's needs. Besides which most of it is outdated anyway. My favourite is the expectancy from people that my 5 week old should be sleeping through the night (He wakes every 3.5 hours) and I should fill him with formula through the evening so he won't wake up. And it's me that has to get up with him and it doesn't actually bother me because he feeds then goes back down. Also it doesnt work as he has been mix fed due to various reasons and has had formula at bedtime and still wakes up. The other favourite one is that he's trying to run rings around me by crying to be picked up and I should leave him to get it out. I'm pretty sure at 5 weeks they haven't learnt the skill of manipulation? Plus again it's me that has to pick him up, and I don't mind, so why do people get so upset about things that don't affect them?!

These are so cultural as well...as an Italian I had no problem handing DS to random nonnas to admire

I do find it a bit stressful sometimes having to explain things why I don't always do things the traditional 'English' way. I'm sure my decisions are as considered and thought out as those of more routine-led 7-7 parents but instead I occasionally got patronising 'ooh you are so laid back' or 'don't you want a break' type comments.

It might be based on the assumption that babies of 6m+ are also eating a balanced diet which would of course contain iron from meat, eggs, green vegetables

I agree although it's a bit of stretch to think that if you follow NHS guidance on weaning that your DC wpuld be eating such a wide variety of foods so soon. DD is 7 months and only just getting there with fruit & veggies. Gonna keep up on that before we start meat etc. She was combination fed until 6 months and the HV I saw said if she wasn't getting X amount of formula per day I needed to give her a multi vitamin for iron and vitamin D. It does seem as though the advice from HVs is less than consistent though.

All in all, it's not broke I'm not fixing it.