...to ask why the NHS funds IVF?

[moofeatures]

I promise I'm neither an (intentionally) goady fucker, nor Katie Hopkins.

But.

Following on from a recent thread about there being a perception that public money grows on trees, I'd like to ask your stance on the NHS funding IVF.

Now, before I get flamed for my insensitivity, let me explain that I myself was diagnosed with ovarian failure in my 20s. I am still of an age where I'd meet the criteria for NHS IVF funding, which would be my only way to have a biological child. I initially grieved for this as I always assumed I'd be pregnant one day, but also from day 1 of my diagnosis I've felt that artificial reproductive hormone therapy/IUI/IVF falls outside the remit of what the NHS should provide as it serves no medically therapeutic purpose.

The logical response to my argument is: "if the only option for IVF is to privately fund, then you're depriving less affluent people the chance to become parents", which is both true and a shame... but is it the NHS's problem? Really, it's the infertility which took away that choice - and it is a choice, not a right... at least in my opinion.

Am I alone in feeling this way?

I think it's a legacy treatment.

Hey, infertility I'd s medical problem and look we can find ways around it!

Only 40 years on, it's become unsustainable.

I haven't t read the full thread so may be repeating things others have said.
In some areas criteria for funding is very strict. Not being to conceive means that something is medically wrong. There should be the same criteria and funding everywhere, instead of a postcode lottery.

The effects of not being able to conceive can cause mental health issues for some - which is why clinics offer counselling.

That doesn't mean a person, if they had a child would not be able to manage.

If ivf is a "lifestyle choice" that doesn't warrant any funding, should the NHS fund treatment for smoking, alcohol or drug abuse, obesity, accidents resulting from taking part in dangerous sports.etc? All of which could, depending on your viewpoint, be considered as "lifestyle" choices. I personally think that they should be funded. I know a line has to be drawn somewhere , but if you start claiming one person's needs are more important than someone else's where do you stop?

Not being able to afford private treatment doesn't mean you can afford to bring up a child. Even the cheapest clinics charge around £5000 for a treatment cycle, some far more.

We were fortunate to conceive on our funded cycle. I don't feel having the treatment was something I should not have been entitled to. I agree though that as we then had a child, we should not have been entitled to more funding.
If makes me sad to think that some people think our kind, caring, happy little girl should not be here.
We have paid for further treatment cycles to have a sibling and failed. Whilst I have now come to terms with this and moved on, it still hurts every time my 7 Yr old asks if she can have a brother or sister.

Not read thread. I think this is v interesting subject. I had infertility but didn’t meet NHS guidelines for IVF. Was going to find privately then conceived naturally at last minute. But can say that my mental health suffered greatly as result of infertility and I think had I not conceived the nhs would have had to spend a lot helping my mind.

I think it's a legacy treatment. Only 40 years on, it's become unsustainable

PP posted this regarding the NHS budget:

^"It is hard to find precise figures, but as far as I can tell from Googling, the NHS spends around £400m on IVF each year, which given that the budget for England is £122bn, is around 0.3% of the total spend. This seems to be approx. 40% of the IVF cycles done (e.g. the other 60% are privately paid for). I do not think there can possibly be figures on how many UK couples are doing IVF abroad, but given the price differential it's got to be quite a few.

So the absolute best case scenario of ending IVF today would be saving less than 0.5% of the budget (which would immediately be wiped out by the costs of NHS deliveries of multiples conceived in less regulated private clinics here and abroad)."^

The chief executive of the NHS said in 2016 (imagine it’s more today in 2018), that British taxpayers are spending more on treating obesity-related conditions than on the police or fire service

"NHS England said around £16 billion a year is spent on the direct medical costs of diabetes and conditions related to being overweight or obese."

In 2018, the head of the NHS in England said that “Being overweight is the second biggest cause of cancer, after smoking, and is the major cause of Type 2 diabetes – a disease where the treatment and complications cost 9% of the NHS budget annually.

Obesity is by and large self induced.

Infertility is not.

I would be very surprised if any NHS funding is available for IVF in the next few years, because the NHS is on its knees due to an ageing population, that we simply can’t afford

However IVF is a drop in the ocean in comparison to the cost to the NHS of lifestyle related illnesses

my obesity was self induced i suppose Then i lost ten stone by myself I wouldnt mind having the loose skin on my tummy removed but unlike a lot of cases its liveable.

Im childfree by choice so couldnt the saving ive made the NHS there be used on the loose skin op...............talking hypothetically.

No kids means no maternity treatment scans no use of midwife and also no medical treatment or innoculations for the non existent kids.

Pregnancy is a choice though and a lot of women have had ops to correct the loose skin caused by pregnancy.

I was going to come on the thread to say how awful it must be to really really want a child and not be able to

Then i saw bananas last post and thought .................fuck it. Because the support is never reciprocated on NHS threads And overweight people are always the fucking fall guy .............even long after we have lost the weight.

Of course i realize not everyone thinks that way though.

My maternal switch never really got switched on ..............not enough to want to look after a kid 24/7

Slurp You just said it better.

I havent read the whole thread and apologize to banana if shes been quoting other posters.

And i totally agree with you Slurp.

The HA i rent from has a useless computer system and they absolutely will not admit that it doesnt work.

manic I have a son via IVF and he has two IVF classmates who are both boys (mixed class/school)

I have a son via IVF too.

Pregnancy is a choice though and a lot of women have had ops to correct the loose skin caused by pregnancy.

Helena, that isn’t NHS funded as the huge folds around my middle would tell you. I’ve had a singleton with a huge amount of excess fluid then twins and I’m only 5 foot tall. I have a photo of me in labour with my twins where the differences between me and Jabba the Hut are difficult to spot.

I have a huge amount of excess skin plus split stomach muscles and there is no NHS funding to sort that either.

Overeating is a choice, drinking too much is a choice, not taking adequate exercise is a choice.

Ffamingo

I have just been diagnosed with vitamin D deficiency - after feeling like death for 18 months; constantly exhausted and depression. When I get up, I feel so exhausted with aching muscles that I do not know where to get the energy from to get breakfast and help DD get dressed, never mind do all the rest of the stuff I have to do in a day! I can only walk for half an hour and then have to sit down!

Not taking adequate exercise may be a conscious choice for you, but don't generalise your personal experience to everybody else!

I dont know why the NHS funds IVF.

As an NHS nurse i dont agree with it - i see first hand everyday how the NHS doesnt have a penny .

I paid for my own IVF - we saved and saved .

Pregnancy is a choice?

Try telling that to the people who don't get to choose it

Umm how much does the NHS spend on other things that other people may not see as valuable - e.g., people with alcohol problems, drug problems, illness caused by unhealthy lifestyle choices, unnecessary prescriptions, etc and it is a totally inefficient bureaucracy ... the issue is the NHS can no longer be free for everything and people should be expected to top beyond basic care, especially heavy users of the service (for whatever reasons)

zzzz

In my own case, imo it's due to having very fair skin, which never tans, so I keep out of the sun and put sun cream on a lot, as the risk of skin cancer is supposed to be high (my mother has had stage 2 melanoma)!

I've now been told it's practically impossible to get enough from food!

As an NHS nurse i dont agree with it - i see first hand everyday how the NHS doesnt have a penny .

I paid for my own IVF - we saved and saved .

Oh good. So I assume as you have all this spare money to save and you’re so concerned about the NHS’s funding you’ll be handing back your 6.5% pay rise then?