Is this stealing?

[MrBrainsFaggots]

Husband of a friend opened bank accounts as each child (3) arrived. All kids under 8.

Grandparents have put in £100 each birthday / Christmas (very generous, three sets of grandparents) and one gave a substantial sum (in the £hundreds) on birth of each child.

Turns out bank accounts are empty. Husband doesn't see that this is a problem - "bills needed paying." Friend livid and seeking advice from solicitor.

WIBU? Would this spell divorce for you? Is this stealing? How much is too much?

If he is holding money for the express use of the kids, a trust has been created with him as the trustee and the kids as beneficiaries.

A trustee has to do everything for the benefit is the beneficiary. Payment of bills is unlikely to be for their benefit.

My ex cheated on me numerous times and like a mug I forgave him. I put up with all his abusive behaviour for years. Then he took our sons money and lied about it (ie never came clean and said someone else must have stolen it which would have been impossible) - I ended it there and then and never went back. I would have ended it had all the abuse/cheating occurred previously too, there are certain things that cross a point of no return for me and stealing from your own child is one of those things. Only scum would stoop so low.

Yes it was stealing. I would feel differently if only the parents put money in and both agreed they had to use it for bills.

Tell your friend to read Stephen King's Dolores Claiborne -- that husband paid dearly for his theft.

@Bluntness100

Her stbxh (judging by her reaction to this) simply said "bills needed paying". The lack of financial information has always concerned me. She thought for the first years that it was normal - he worked, she worked, then her work was the kids. Then he became ill and spent months in hospital so she asked how she was to keep paying the bills / asked to see the accounts. He refused. She did some digging.

Turns out he has full financial control over everything - all the bills, and many haven't been paid. He has been gambling too, credit cards wracked up to the hilt, she's only just realising how bad it is. All savings gone. All investments. Everything. Including the children's money.

It depends how badly the bills needed paying. If they were in genuinely dire straits then yes it is ok to empty kids account so you don't lose the roof over your head.

If they are reasonably comfortable and he just wanted some extra spending money then he was being massively unreasonable.

That's definitely a huge breach of trust with her, the children and the grandparents. I'd say it would take a LOT to come back from that including but not limited to him recognising that what he did was wrong and repaying the amounts he'd taken.

I think there would be circumstances in which it would be reasonable to use that money but not on a regular basis and not without openness and agreement between both partners.

Xposts.

In that case he was definitely in the wrong!

Bills conveniently needed paying on the birth, birthday and Christmas of all 3 children?

My fucking arse!!! He’s squandered it, he’s scum and he’d be gone.

It is fraud.
When an adult opens an account for a dc its agreed - and signed - that the money is for the benefit of the dc.
Not utility bills in the dps name!!
My exh is being investigated for banking fraud for similar.

OP Amongst other things, yes. Scratchcards. Alcohol. Drugs. Plus his OW

Realistically, there will never be a criminal case brought against him. But the children can sue for financial mismanagement (there's a proper word for it but I can't remember) when they grow up.

The parents are in charge of the money, but they are expected to safeguard it for the children so they can be sued.

I've borrowed money from the children's accounts. Thousands. When I couldn't afford the mortgage because my husband had a breakdown, lost his job, was sectioned and hospitalised in a secure unit. I couldn't pay the mortgage. I'm paying them back monthly and it will be paid back in full by the time they reach 16. They are now 13 and 9.

It all depends on circumstances.

I wouldn't be too bothered about the kids money being spent if times are hard and it was on the understanding that it would be mostly paid back but it's the fact that he did it without her knowing that would worry me.

@Aprilshouldhavebeenmyname - I did wonder if it was fraud. Do you suggest she talks to a solicitor about this? Or the bank? I have two extra account under my own current account in my children's names. I had to sign an agreement that it was only because they were minors that it is in my name, but for their benefit. I wouldn't dream of taking money out of either account - makes me feel a bit queasy thinking about what she's going through really.

Just seen your update. This is the price women pay when they let their husbands control the finances and think "that's normal, they're the man".

Hope she learns to be more involved in household concerns from here on out.

Again I'm still slightly on the fence. If he was in hospital and not working, and she also was not working, how did she think thr bills were being paid with no money coming in?

I'm struggling to believe a grown adult had absolutely no financial knowledge at all of the cost of their home life and if they really didn't, then I'm sorry, she deserved what she had coming. Why did she permit this to happen? If she did digging and found out then clearly the info was available to her all along, she chose not to look.

The gambling is where I'm falling to her side. How much of an issue was this in thr wider picture?

Hold on, just read OPs update. That's not acceptable behaviour on a marriage.

@badgerread I'm so sorry you had to go through that. Well done you for organising a repayment plan for your children, and well done for sticking to it. Good luck.

the money aside the problems are huge here that need to be sorted.the taking money has come secondary to his spiraled beahviour

Its a shitty, unacceptable thing to do to the children, but based on your update, taking the kids money is the least of it. Your friend has been v. Naive;, it’s time for ducks in a row. However looks like the families lay cupboard is bare.

Surely the issue is not the children’s money but everything else he has squandered? It may have started with their savings but pretty soon it will be the roof over the heads. She must see this?

“Yes, that is stealing from the children.”

It’s stealing from the entire family. Presumably that money could have been used for the children to have driving lessons, or to go on holiday with, or for university. Now that money will have to be found elsewhere. I’m guessing the OP’s friend will be the one stumping up the cash in 10 year’s time - doesn’t sound like her husband will be in a position to...

over their heads

There’s a few themes to unpack
His overall lack of candour
His emptying accounts
His Gambling

I’m afraid I don’t think it’s absolutely dont ever never use the kids money. It’d depend. And yes bills do need paid. So it’s about detail.context and intent

Clearly if he was gambling then no bills will not get paid and dipping the kids monies is woeful
And he did not spend the kids monies on the bills, took the kids money and then did not pay bills

However, I don’t understand any woman being so compliant and effectively giving him all financial control
It’s so submissive and wee wifey,to let him run the finances
When he was unwell,finances tight she should have had a better grasp. Should have Got a job if need be

I would agree with you, expect our kids had bank accounts with big wedges of money in them. They now are empty, however I have a house full of gin. Swings and roundabouts, What they don't know won't hurt them