To think it's fair that pushchairs are not allowed inside historic houses?

[dolgellau]

I volunteer weekly at a National Trust property.

We welcome anyone that wants to visit and explore the house and gardens.

Like many NT houses, pushchairs are more than welcome to go around the gardens. For conservation reasons they are not allowed indoors.

This particular property is 400+ years old and has some narrow doorways which are a problem of access for wheelchair users. More importantly there are almost 'priceless' pieces of irreplaceble furniture that can easily be knocked and damaged. The building is still set out as a house. I feel it's of utmost importance to care for all of these objects for future generations to enjoy, not just ours.

Every once in a while I get put on front of house. The amount of abuse and hassle I receive from people after they've been politelly informed that pushchairs are not allowed indoors. I've had swearing in my face to just general attitude. A favourite is that we're somehow discriminatory against wheelchair users. (For that matter we make exceptions and are very welcome).

I can't be rude to the visitors but come on, your child can walk or be carried whereas as a wheelchair user physically can't see the house otherwise! I always offer for the pushchair to be left in a safe place by the entrance where it will be guarded around the clock.

So, I thought I'd consult Mumsnet for this issue. Do you see it as being unfair for pushchairs to not be allowed in historic houses in order to conserve the collections?

I used the buggy as support as well as a method of transporting DS before I started using my wheelchair. It was essential for me to be able to get around, much like a walking frame, but I couldn't use both.

If someone told me I couldn't use my buggy, I'd have been annoyed as it would have meant I couldn't visit either. I find those with feral children that people don't bother to parent worse, as well as rucksacks.

In that situation then you just need to explain to the staff. But as has been said the nature of these properties means often it is impossible for them to be fully accessible because they can’t be changed easily.

Every national trust venue has an accessibility statement on their websites which is well worth checking before you go to get an idea of what it’s like

Yes fine, but make sure it's clearly written on the homepage of your website not tucked away under access or something. Also have notices up in the carpark so parents can get prepared and grab their bjorn etc rather than being told at the door.

There are kids where carrying them for that period of time is unrealistic but they can't walk / walk far ie a year-18 months or families with baby twins so those families would be excluded, meaning less income for the NT, but if they're OK with that then fine.

Secure buggy parking is also important, I think a ticket system would make me feel more secure (expensive bugaboo).

I don't mind. There's usually a secure place to put the buggy and some provide baby carriers. Some aren't suitable for buggies anyway as they are narrow with tiny staircases.
Very rarely do I go to this type of place anyway, but I just deal with it. No point complaining because they are the rules and understandably so.

Why do you need a notice in the car park to warn you that you can't expect to push your pram around a house? Especially one with irreplaceable antique furniture and carpets? If you are allowed to take it in, then that is a bonus. but not something you can expect, surely!

The NT actively wants to attract 'families' and it needs to be clear about the restrictions. Both on the website and in, for example, the car park. You can't assume everyone knows, understands or has planned in advance. (Or is well versed about there being 'priceless' carpets where the public march through )

FWIW one of my elderly relatives works as a volunteer in a NT property and hates the summer school holidays with ''all the bloody kids coming through''. Nice attitude. She's not alone. The place she works at needs the funds generated through the summer from all these annoying families to stay up and running ... that's never mentioned though.

Why do you need a notice in the car park to warn you that you can't expect to push your pram around a house? Especially one with irreplaceable antique furniture and carpets? If you are allowed to take it in, then that is a bonus. but not something you can expect, surely!
Exactly. It's a house .

Of course it's fair. And if your toddler runs round and damages things how about using reins, a wriststrap or one of those backpacks with a strap?

My experience at Waddesdon was unexpected. My DS was well used to visiting historic properties and had always walked around holding a hand until then. Plenty of people do it and I doubt they are all “reckless and entitled” as a previous poster stated. It’s certainly not only children who cause expensive damage in historic properties. See the story about The Fitzwilliam museum and the broken vases.

After that incident and certainly after DC 2 was born we only ever visited the gardens until recently.

Incidentally, at the time of my “reckless and entitled” decision to take my child to Waddesdon Manor I was working as an education officer for another well-known heritage advisory body. A dream job as I love historic properties and sites. I had been involved in a study that reported that an interest in visiting historic sites as an adult is directly related to exposure to them as a child. We did everything we could to encourage families to visit our sites.

Yamamiss

Apologies if this has already been posted, but the National Trust do an Essential Carers card for disabled visitors. This allows free entry for carers and might also serve as evidence that a special needs buggy is essential.

We have a carers card, on our memebership, for ds (I am his carer) - it still doesn't allow for his sn buggy to go into many of the properties.

YANBU I do think people need to be told when paying though as well as having it on the website.

hazeyjane I hope his sn buggy is allowed in where wheelchairs are.

YANBU. I sympathise with you OP. I'm a volunteer at Sissinghurst Castle (don't care about being outed) and I refuse to work at the garden gate any more because of the abuse that I used to get from parents with buggies. The most common argument is that "You let people with wheelchairs in so you're discriminating against us."

Sissinghurst is a historical garden, created in 1930, when buggies didn't exist. The paths are very narrow and flowers spill all over them. We like to keep it as it was. People who are avid gardeners come from all over the world to see Vita's garden

We allow wheelchairs in, on a restricted route with wider paths and also buggies with children who have disabilities (the latter have a sticker - not something that obviously displays them as different, just a pretty flower so that they won't get challenged). There are notices all over the place warning that we can't let buggies in the garden. Carriers are provided for free, and we have somewhere to park buggies. Anyone who drags a fully loaded buggy down from our car park, ignoring all of the signs, and still demanding to be let in with it is an annoying Entitled Parent as far as I'm concerned.

A,few years ago a Property Manager (since left) decided to relax the No Buggies rule for just one season. The damage that was done to the garden was horrific. People were dragging their buggies through the flower beds , wrecking all of the plants and across wet lawns. We've now gone back to the No Buggies rule.

Good luck to you OP.

Tamzin, would there be any relaxation of that rule for multiples? I have twins and have friends with triplets and even quads. For us, it’s not as simple as just “put baby in a carrier”.

None of us would ever be abusive about it though - that’s awful.

Years ago I was not allowed to take my buggy into an historic house... not a problem and they lent me a wonderful “hip cushion” to hel me carry DD around.

We have been in places where we weren’t allowed to take our rucksacks (We often take picnics and/or camera equipment) so the bags are taken and we were issued with a numbered ticket.

We’ve also been issued shoe covers in some places when we were wearing walking boots.

All these things are perfectly reasonable to preserve the often delicate structure and contents of these lovely buildings. If you don’t like the rules don’t go....

*@OneStepSideways I've had to chase mine around country houses and she's set off alarms a couple of times! *

Why on earth would you need to do that? Surely the appropriate thing would be to hold her hand or use reins? I always did... not because mine ran off but to keep them safe and secure.

They do this at Speke hall. It's fine - can't believe anyone would have an issue with it tbh, there are obviously vg reasons. I didn't read in advance, took DS, left pushchair, they lent me a hip seat (and I liked the hip seat so much I bought one the next day!)

And if you have 2 close in age or whatever, just don't visit until they can behave/walk or you have someone to help. Much as I love the NT, it's not exactly essential to traipse round a building or garden.

These places are an absolute nightmare for wheelchair users.
My child is seven and can't walk. They suggested I carry him around the stately Home so needless to say we gave up and went home.

Totally fine as long at people are given notice. As PP said tell make it clear on the website that prams and buggies aren't allowed inside.

Windsor Castle is fab, tell you on website, tell you when you buy tickets, cloakroom system for pram, slings to borrow.

To the people who ask why would you take a young child. Did you sit at home never go anywhere with your babies for 3 years???

Our LO was 6 months when we visited Windsor Castle and near by childrens attraction for 6 yo.
We wanted to see the castle, what do you expect us to do with baby? Send him to the kennels with the dog?

Surely the appropriate thing would be to hold her hand or use reins? I always did... not because mine ran off but to keep them safe and secure

We used to use reins but around the age of 2 she refused to walk with reins on, pulling at it and biting it like a puppy, then rolling on the floor in a tantrum. Same with a wrist-strap (and less safe as they can slip their elbow if they fall awkwardly). She won't hold hands unless it's to cross the road or in a carpark. I'd rather keep enforced hand holding for times when it's essential for safety.

It is totally reasonable.

I remember visiting a stately home with my brother when he was a toddler and my stepmother was offered the loan of a hippychick hipseat for a small deposit, which she took and it was a great help. Is there anything like that you could do? It does really make a difference.

Do you work at Cragside? Been there and wasn’t allowed to take a roam around. They did conveniently have baby carriers and hippy chick carriers as an alternative which was very helpful. This was 13ish years ago though and I was with my PFB. No way would I bother paying the money again for a NT property and young DC.