To think it's fair that pushchairs are not allowed inside historic houses?

[dolgellau]

I volunteer weekly at a National Trust property.

We welcome anyone that wants to visit and explore the house and gardens.

Like many NT houses, pushchairs are more than welcome to go around the gardens. For conservation reasons they are not allowed indoors.

This particular property is 400+ years old and has some narrow doorways which are a problem of access for wheelchair users. More importantly there are almost 'priceless' pieces of irreplaceble furniture that can easily be knocked and damaged. The building is still set out as a house. I feel it's of utmost importance to care for all of these objects for future generations to enjoy, not just ours.

Every once in a while I get put on front of house. The amount of abuse and hassle I receive from people after they've been politelly informed that pushchairs are not allowed indoors. I've had swearing in my face to just general attitude. A favourite is that we're somehow discriminatory against wheelchair users. (For that matter we make exceptions and are very welcome).

I can't be rude to the visitors but come on, your child can walk or be carried whereas as a wheelchair user physically can't see the house otherwise! I always offer for the pushchair to be left in a safe place by the entrance where it will be guarded around the clock.

So, I thought I'd consult Mumsnet for this issue. Do you see it as being unfair for pushchairs to not be allowed in historic houses in order to conserve the collections?

No I don't have a badge I have my DLA letter which other attractions sometimes accept as proof of disability.

Totally get where you’re coming from...but it was mortifying to have to run under a railing to disentangle my 2 year old from a prince’s rocking horse that was at least 150 years old. Had him by the hand but little Houdini made a break for it. We won’t be returning until he’s at least 5!

YANBU i don’t think houses with historic artefacts and valuable furniture are aimed at young families anyway. it’s only recently we have been taking our 3 year old in them now he has more or less outgrown the running away phase.

Why on earth you'd take a child in a pushchair anyway.
They must be bloody bored stiff.
Fair enough they may enjoy running around the garden, but still there must be plants they can't touch.
Took mine when they were older and could actually understand the history.

As long as it's well advertised and people are informed in advance so you can manage their expectations then it's not unreasonable. We recently went to the roman baths, in historic bath. We looked online in advance at the usual ticket information and also read that pushchairs were not permitted inside due to nature of the layout of the site. It's an archaeological site with uneven surfaces and steps etc.so we planned ahead and brought the sling with us so we could safely carry our then 10 month old. We.did bring our pushchair too, as it was a long day just to carry her and bags, but was happy to leave it in the entrance with all the other buggys. You could also hire a carrier for a deposit if you didn't bring your own. I much prefer to.use a sling or carrier than just hold wriggling baby as I feel safer having my hands free. I can understand if you have more than one child though, and you are on your own that it would be difficult to manage them without a pushchair and hold bags etc, but like I said ad long as people have advanced notice so can make the decision before they arrive or buy tickets than that's all you can do.

Whilst we are on the subject it also annoys me when you are visiting other family attractions like an aquarium the number of parents who block the access to the exhibitions with pushchairs. One of the aquariums we went to.encouraged you to leave the buggy in a buggy park before you entered the circuit, but some people still insisted on walking round with it and it made the route really congested. Lots of two parents /adults with one baby in a big travel system that could have took turns holding the baby and giving them a good view. I understand that people often come by public transport or walk so need their buggy to travel to and from the attractions but once inside the number of them made the area feel very claustrophobic.

I recently visited Lyme and hadn't thought about this and asked if they had an accessible way to enter the house, they said no but there was a place to lock up your pushchair which I thought was good. I had never been into the house before and I felt embarrassed as soon as I did for asking the lady, as I realised why instantly. I don't understand why people get aggressive, but I can't say I'm surprised.

It did make me sad that wheelchair users cannot access this house, but I can't see a way around it that wouldn't compromise the integrity of the house.

DD(10) used to be offered one of those Hippychick hipseats at NT houses when she was small. It prompted me to buy one myself! They are brilliant for carrying a baby from about 6 months-2 1/2 for 30+ minutes, even in tropical climes.

Other places I've visited have had lockers and buggy parking right by the end of a house tour (well signposted).

If our DC was napping, DH and I would take turns to tour a place (usually apologising for whizzing through). There just needs to be a shelter/wooded area/cafe/carpark nearby if it rains.

OP I am tempted to suggest that you ask for volunteer mums on the relevant Mumsnet Local to help your local property plan.

NT seems to have tried really hard to welcome families at properties that were a bit dull and stuffy 10+ years ago. There are some beautiful wild play areas and playgrounds at many properties these days.

Who the hell would want to take a toddler round a 400 year old house anyway!

They are to young to care or even know what they are there for and they are unlikely to be able to cope long enough to not misbehave before the end.

They would probably like the gardens though.

gillybeanz Maybe they have older children who are interested?

As some one else said - would you push a pushchair round normal houses ?!?!? The NT trust property near us loans out slings and toddler carry belts - perfect

Not everyone has 2 children with a 2 year gap you know. Some families have children with a spread of ages and so the little one has to tag along sometimes.

I think it’s fair enough, as long as disabled kids and wheelchairs are catered for. Most of the families that visit tend to just stick to the gardens though I’d have thought. We did the Easter egg trail at 3 local NT properties (getting my monies worth!) and they were all just in the grounds and not in the house at all.

We regularly visit Leeds Castle which does a kids trail in the actual castle bit. It’s quite a long trek through the castle, up all the staircases etc for little legs. In the very last room there are incredibly comfy looking sofas not roped off or anything. Every single child makes a beeline for them, obviously. There is a lady that works there that always looks like she’s about to implode from the stress of keeping kids off these century old sofas.

I think yabu. I don't think pushchairs are more damaging than people walking and that a Houdini toddler is more likely to break something if allowed to walk.
Also pushchairs can be really expensive - I'd not want to leave mine unless you were fully insured against theft and had a proper system to ensure the right pushchair ended up back with the right owner.

YANBU, no way would I expect to be allowed to take a pushchair into a NT house.

We just visited the gardens until DS was 4 and old enough to walk / understand that he mustn’t touch.

As for people saying their “little Houdini” just escaped (as though it’s not foreseeable that a 2 year old might get bored and bolt!). I can’t believe anyone would be so reckless/entitled. I’m guessing they’re the sort of parents who would just shrug if their little rascals destroyed a priceless artefact, or blame the NT for having fragile items on display.

Would you use a buggy in your house? in someone elses? no NH are not designed for buggies, YANBU in banning pushchairs (Disabled pushchairs obviously excluded liek you say).

FWIW I don't have a problem with the no pushchair rule and have happily carried my babies round NT properties in the past.

But I do think there needs to be allowances for children with disabilities who might be too big to carry but still use a pushchair, and this needs to be stated on the website and other literature so parents can bring relevant proof with them if need be.

We had a backpack to take small children around in and they loved it as they got a birds eye view of everything.

To be honest though, it is the parents who want to see the house, not the kids who will be easily bored. Ultimately it is up to the owners/custodians who they allow in. Children grow up and often benefit more as they get older anyway.

*Also pushchairs can be really expensive - I'd not want to leave mine unless you were fully insured against theft and had a proper system to ensure the right pushchair ended up back with the right owner.•

This^
Plus it’s full of stuff usually that I want to go missing. I think a lot of historic properties like the idea of families visiting but don’t like the reality.
I have had good experiences with National Trust of being offered to keep an eye on the pushchair by a helpful volunteer, indoors. Opposite with English heritage where pushchairs must be left out of sight in an unmanned area outdoors. Not even left near the front entrance where the volunteers can keep an eye. The pushchair wasn’t especially high end so may not be ‘expensive’ to someone else but it’s what I can afford so it needs to be looked after. Not rained on and possibly nicked.

*stuf that I DONT want to go missing!!

Who the hell would want to take a toddler round a 400 year old house anyway!

Us. Our kids are 6, 3 and 2 and they loved Lyme House. It's best to let children show you what they enjoy, rather than decide for them.

The main thing about issues like this is that they should be made clear on the website so people can check before they go. We understand that some places can't be made disabled accessible but it helps to know!

We have had a few occasions ( not NT properties I think) where we have been told to leave ds's sn buggy in a buggy park. The latest must have been when he was about 10. We have checked that wheelchairs are allowed and then insisted that his buggy should be treated in the same way.
You can get please treat as a wheelchair badges although we have never used one and really by school age the vast majority of children in buggies have a disability.

NT state on their website for each property what the rules are for pushchairs so there shouldn’t be any surprises. They loan out front carrying slings and hippychick seats to those who need them. They offer to watch you pushchair for you.

What more do people want?! I think they are being way more accommodating than the majority of similar non NT venues we’ve visited. Sadly there will always be some people who have such a sense of entitlement that this isn’t good enough for them.

Also pushchairs can be really expensive - I'd not want to leave mine unless you were fully insured against theft and had a proper system to ensure the right pushchair ended up back with the right owner But surely you would have checked the NT policy and made your own decision before juts turning up on spec?

I don't think pushchairs are more damaging than people walking and that a Houdini toddler is more likely to break something if allowed to walk. Having worked in a listed building on Open Mornings I can assure you that push chairs do cause a lot of damage to wood panelling and door frames. And a Houdini child is down to a lack of parental control or forethought - as in don't go until the child would be less bored!

We are national trust members and I fully accept that even with ds in his wheelchair there will be properties that we can’t access any or all of the buildings. The nature of the buildings means sometimes it simply isn’t possible to make them fully accessible. It is right that when access is limited it is saved for wheelchair users (or SN buggy users)

Not NT but for access with a wheelchair I can’t praise Windsor castle enough we could get everywhere thanks to helpful staff