*Poverty* Do you agree

[geekone]

BBC Scotland say 1-4 children in Scotland live in poverty, which is an aweful statistic and really sad. However they also state "According to the group's most recent figures, a two-parent family with two children of school age would be defined as being in poverty if they are living on less than £413 a week after housing costs."

This seems like a lot of money to me £1652 after housing costs? I don't think that's poverty? In London maybe but Scotland?

I may be wrong and I am happy to stand corrected but wanted to know what you all think.

expatinscotland so how would you deal with the issue ?

Poverty is about being able to live and have equal footing with others

I don't think it is, its about having the human basics. Why should someone not working, doing part time, choosing to have several children or live in a very expensive area have the same as those who work harder or live within their means? What incentive would there be to aim higher?

As usual expat has it nailed

boxsets if you bothered to read the link you would see that many of these children have two working parents...

I don't think it is, its about having the human basics. Why should someone not working, doing part time, choosing to have several children or live in a very expensive area have the same as those who work harder or live within their means? What incentive would there be to aim higher?

Seriously?
I like this American way of apportioning blame on the poor that it’s their fault because of the choices they make.
There are a lot of people who work full time or as many hours as they can on their shitty zero hours contracts who don’t live in especially desirable areas who are defined as being in poverty. The area I live in is deprived but the rental charges are relatively high.
It seems a lot of posters think that poor people should be wearing rags and living in a shithole with no food because otherwise how do they aspire for more. The whole bloody point is that children who grow up in this environment can’t bloody aspire for more because there is no social
mobility anymore....

and quite how your glib assertion about full time work factors in childcare costs is beyond me.

@TheShapeOfEwe I agree there is no easy answer.

And yes I know that everyone under the poverty line figure is included what I am saying badly is that I am not denying there is poverty I just think not as much as we have pointed out to us by politicians and the media. That by giving these figures it's hiding a worse situation it's hiding from general society the most worse off.

@user1486062886 I don't know how we help I don't know the answers. Some of the solutions you mention will actually push others further on to the breadline. I also don't think that if you work hard, and have done so all your life, and earn a very decent salary, then you shouldn't be punished to support those who didn't. But then I also fully agree that many people are in poverty situations not through any fault of their own and not because they have not worked hard all of their life.

I suppose this is the downfall of a capitalist society, and I say that as someone who has benefited from being part of it and enjoys its perks. But even then I can't afford to give away what I have to make things more even I am not a billionaire. Should a billionaire do this? Should we have a more even, utopian, society?

Mari50 So how would you sort out this issue ?

Since you don't seem to read links user , I am copying and pasting some solutions offered up by The Child Poverty Action Group :

*There are many steps which could be taken to maximise family incomes, minimise essential outgoings and mitigate the effects of poverty on children, their families and the communities and services which support them. These include:

• Access to secure employment and decent pay: 61% of children in poverty in Scotland live in families where at least one adult is in work [xviii]. Given that low pay and job insecurity are a key factor in the existence of in-work poverty it is essential that all working parents receive at least the real Living Wage a reasonable degree of security and opportunities to develop their skills and progress at work.

• Adequate social security benefits: Benefit rates should be increased to a level which ensures that children do not experience poverty whether their parents are in or out of work. An important step towards this would be increasing the rate of child benefit to reflect the increased cost of raising a child at the same time as re-instating the link between benefit uprating and inflation.

• Increased uptake of benefits: According to DWP figures, between 16 and 44% of families in the UK are not claiming the means-tested benefits (such as income support and employment support allowance) which they are entitled to, meaning up to a million families are missing out [xix]. This highlights a need for more high quality information and advice.

• Affordable childcare: Overall, the average cost of part time (25 hours) child care in Scotland for a child under two is £109.68 per week, while the average cost of an after school club is £56.74 per week [xx]. As well as easing pressure on family budgets, increased provision of affordable, high quality childcare would facilitate access to employment for parents and carers and improve outcomes and educational attainment for children, particularly those from deprived backgrounds.

• The removal of financial barriers to education: The provision of universal free school meals could save a family with two children more than £800 a year [xxi]. Providing adequate School Clothing Grants to low income families and reducing the cost of school transport and school trips would also help to ease the financial pressure experienced by families.*

geekone This is the problem ,there is no easy solution to the problem, there has all ways been rich and poor people in society and all ways will be unless we adopt a different society, perhaps set a max wage and let the money filter down,

Piggywaspushed all good solutions, Secure employment does not exist nowadays, business want flexible cheap labour
, more benefits ( we all want higher taxes )
Yes claim all you can
Affordable child care, how is this possible ? many child care places are struggling for money and the workers are not paid much, if the government has to pay more were will the money come from (tax payers)

the removal of financial barriers all will cost the tax payer more,

People don't want to pay more taxes

I would. Many happily would. You do realise more people actually voted for tax raising parties at the last election , don't you?

Is there an equivalent to mansplaining on MN? Perhaps Usersplaining?

People don't want to pay more taxes

Speak for yourself. Having been on the bones of my arse before I’m now quite happy to pay higher rate tax. Why shouldn’t we?

And confidently stating people don’t want to pay higher taxes on a thread about poverty is I doubt people struggling to feed their families want to be in that position either.

As for secure employment, it doesn’t exist because of government policy. Which can be changed.

Ditto the minimum wage.

Then perhaps the government should interduce a system were people can pay more tax if they like, It could be called the peoples tax ( lets see how many and how much it raises or perhaps its time to tax the rich even more.

I thought the T**ys won the last election

Why should someone not working, doing part time, choosing to have several children or live in a very expensive area have the same as those who work harder or live within their means? What incentive would there be to aim higher?

One problem with this is that you can be working more than full time in an essential job and still be scraping by. And while you can say adults shouldn’t choose to have children if they can’t afford a good standard of living for them, once those children are born it doesn’t matter what decisions their parents made, they still deserve to grow up in a good environment with access to education and culture.

People don't want to pay more taxes

Some people don't. Others don't necessarily want to but would agree it's sometimes necessary to do so. It's a fallacy propagated by the Tories that the majority of people are anti-taxation.

SoddingUnicorns You are in a good position to pay higher taxes most people don't earn anywhere near that amount, Yes the min wage was brought in for a good reason but now has become the going rate

LittleLionMansMummy Ok missed of the some bit,

May people would agree to pay extra tax if they didn't think it would be wasted, I would be very interested to see what percent GB wide would, if offered willingly pay more tax

@SoddingUnicorns but where is the line. Yes for certain members of society higher taxation won't be a problem, for others it will.
Tax also bothers me it feels like sometimes the harder you work the more you get taxed. But those right at the top, the super rich somehow don't get affected.
The main problem is not all of the Mumsnetters in the middle it's the disparity between the very poor and the super rich.

Yes user, the Tories won the election : but more people voted NOT Tory than Tory. How can you not know that...?

I am sure the CPAG would be very grateful for your well informed input user ...

Silly me I thought the tortes were in government, I must read the daily mail more

What gov organisation is crag ?