*Poverty* Do you agree

[geekone]

BBC Scotland say 1-4 children in Scotland live in poverty, which is an aweful statistic and really sad. However they also state "According to the group's most recent figures, a two-parent family with two children of school age would be defined as being in poverty if they are living on less than £413 a week after housing costs."

This seems like a lot of money to me £1652 after housing costs? I don't think that's poverty? In London maybe but Scotland?

I may be wrong and I am happy to stand corrected but wanted to know what you all think.

There is real poverty in the UK, there are children homeless, there are children going hungry, there are girls missing school because they can't afford sanitary protection

True, but families in that position don't have over £400 a week available after housing costs. And if they do, something else is going on, lack of money isn't to blame.

AbsentmindedWoman I agree about the cinema it was our weekly Saturday morning treat,

Cinema in the era of multi channel TV, streaming, DVD releases within months of cinema releases is a very different beast to the days of people flooding in to watch pathetic news reals. Our local cinema does Saturday morning kids club for £3 per ticket (adult or child). When I was a kid in the 80s it was pretty rare to see anyone eating in the cinema now it seems to be expected that everyone has popcorn and sweets and a drink which doubles the cost.

No Barbara , but that comment by miggledy was in response to being told that there is no real poverty in the UK.

The SNP have started a new scheme to provide free sanitary products to young girls and women to stop “ Period Poverty “ so some of their ideas are good, but generally it’s all pie in the sky with them.

GrumbleBumble Yes it is expensive, but can it be classed as being in poverty if you can't afford to go ?

I am constantly amazed at how much ignorance there is on MN about "how the other half lives".

It cuts both ways - so many daft wealthy posters convinced that a spa day/retraining/cutting back your hours is the solution to all ills.

But equally so many frankly tragic posts from women who cannot believe that most 2-parent 2-child households earn considerably more than £20k pa, and you are actually among the poorest quintile in the UK if you do not.

This country is so divided and unequal, and it's only getting worse.

user if you have to eat only beans on toast all week just to afford it, does that count as being in poverty?

Or is does poverty to you mean having literally zero?

I don't think you need to ask that question persy..

in my student days beans on toast was a luxury, the person eating beans on toast has at least a meal, there will be people worse off than them and many people better off, its all about perspective ive a client who's a millionaire but is all ways complaining about people better off than them.
What is the meaning of poverty to you?

Do people realise that Scotland is actually quite a big country?

Large areas are very cheap - because there are no jobs and they are very rural.

The major cities are expensive because they are where the jobs are.

Edinburgh is horrifically expensive.

Aberdeen too - everything still costs what it did when the oil industry was booming and before literally tens of thousands were made redundant.

"Scotland" is NOT a little parochial rural idyll where it costs £200 a month to rent a house and living costs are low.

Someone mentioned £40 a month transportation costs - are you having a fucking laugh? It's £6 on the train from the nearest station into town. That station is 17 miles from home with no regular bus.

How exactly what i budget £40 on transportation? Oh, the answer is to move to town - where renting 3 bed house would be £1400+ a month? And that's not a fancy house in a wonderful area either.

Do fuck off with the attitude of "Scotland" being a super cheap place to live. It really isn't.

It's relative poverty OP (compared to others and what is considered normal) not absolute poverty (having no shelter, heat, water, food).

I think last time I looked at the Joseph Rowntree Foundation site, it said that any family having income below £21k (or £24k rurally) was in poverty. Relative poverty that is because the majority around them have more. I wouldn't like to raise a family on so little. You could get by but there would be no room for things like clubs, holidays, weekend trips etc..

in my student days beans on toast was a luxury

oh shut up

MiggeldyHiggins No student loans in them days,

user I don't think so - it think it is far less of an "essential" than it was in the past when you saw a movie at the cinema or waited 3 years for a TV showing (or further back not at all) there are other ways to access entertainment now many of which are cheaper. We are in the poverty group by that definition and guess what we did last night? Yep a trip to the cinema. I'm not disputing that some people are in poverty but almost 2k a month after housing really doesn't seem that way to me. We don't have everything but we don't go without either. We chose days out over a holiday, I buy my son's next year's winter coat in the end of season sales in a supermarket this winter so it costs £15 rather than being £80+ for a branded one in the autumn. In short we make choices but they are not heat or food type choices.

Ha! Well I got an answer Piggy, but yes clearly it was pointless to ask.

Beans on toast is a luxury because at least they have a meal. Wow.

Opinions (or goads) like this would be funny except for the fact that there owners have the vote.

*their owners obviously

I think if everyone you know lives in similar circumstances to you, then an assumption is made that that's how it is for everyone and that's normal.

The ONS has an interesting test to show where you sit on the income scale which can be quite a surprise if, as I say, you only generally mix with people like you.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/articles/householdincomeandinequalitywheredoyoufitin/2016-02-23

MiggeldyHiggins No student loans in them days,

in what days?

No student loans because there were bloody student grants!!!!

It would be nice if journalists had a shred of critical thinking before writing these articles as that income level is clearly not poverty.

Any kind of rational debate about poverty is meaningless with the way poverty is defined these days (ie whatever we do there will always people defined as in poverty unless we live in a totalitarian regime where everyone has exactly the same).

MaudlinMews But who decided that not going to clubs ,holidays weekend trips is now considered normal,
£24k rurally that would be considered a good income around here and that's being serious,

No, because fort he gazillionth time it is relative poverty and it is the definition of CHILD poverty.

The Great British Public decided it user which includes people like you.

Perhaps they should use a different term than Poverty,