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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think you are not skint on £70k, even in Central London??

235 replies

LottaLou · 30/05/2018 17:27

Just had a ridiculous conversation with a friend who lives and works in Central London. She is in digital marketing, which is a field where salaries can vary significantly, so until now I had no idea what kind of salary she might be on. She is single and childfree, so no dependants.

She always complains that she does not have enough money to do this and do that, how skint she is at the end of the month, they should pay her more for her job and so on. I usually listen to her and sympathize, as I have had money problems in the past, and I know how tough it can be.

Well today she (accidentally) revealed to me that she is on bloody £70k, which is more than twice my salary!! I am stunned as I genuiney thought she was on some "barely above NMW" money, given how often she complains about being skint! Shock

I love her dearly and I will always be her friend, but AIBU to tell her to STFU the next time she starts complaining about being skint?

OP posts:
caringcarer · 01/06/2018 01:09

If she is single then she has to pay all of her rent or mortgage herself no one to share payments with. She may have over stretched herself. She may also have a uni loan to repay. Remember after about £45k she will be paying 40% tax assuming you are talking £70k gross not net. She earns a good wage and will probably get a better life style if she was part of a high earning couple.

Teacher22 · 01/06/2018 05:44

Much of how solvent or broke you feel is about the disposable, what you have left after what you have spent on essential costs is subtracted from what you earn.

Back in the 1980’s my SIL was always complaining that she was broke to her retired parents. I did a bit of research on the subject. I worked out what she was receiving living totally on benefits with one child as a single mother, what the parents, who were retired on his state pension but who owned their own house outright had to live on and what we earned. My DH and I both worked with reasonable salaries (teaching, local journalism) and had a mortgage.

It turned out that all three sets of people had almost the same disposable income. The tax and benefits system evened things out.

There are two more aspects I have observed to whether people feel broke or well off.

The first is spending habits. Some are in control of what they spend and are prudent and some let their spending run away with them thoughtlessly. The careless spenders always feel broke and, when they have spent on ephemera like socialising, holidays and eating out, look with envy at those who spent their money on appreciating assets like houses and cars, forgetting that others have foregone treats to afford them.

The other aspect of attitude to money is that of personality and ability level. Some are content and grateful, some envious and resentful. Some people can do the sums about income, outgoings and future commitments, some feel rich at the beginning of the month without realising a big bill is due. I know some individuals who are ‘forever poor’ in their heads who cannot manage their incomes because they ‘have’ to have new, expensive clothes or whatever. In contrast, others never buy anything unless it is in a sale or yellow stickered. The imprudent often think their choices are necessities.

My DH and I are retired now and watch a programme called ‘Rich House, Poor House’ about those in the top ten per cent of income swapping lives with those in the bottom ten percent for a week. We realised that, in our earlier days, we were in the top ten per cent ourselves and now, retired and redundant, are in the bottom ten per cent. To be honest, our lives are not that different. We saved and lived frugally when we were rich and avoided debt. We had no luxurious habits to miss and no debts to crash our plane. Nearly all of our pleasures were and are free: reading, walking, nature, art and reading and we make do and mend on our house.

This is to pay no disrespect to those who, like us, fall on hard times. I know from my childhood what it is like to be in a house with no money at all and it is tough and grinding.

BlueBug45 · 01/06/2018 05:57

@Teacher22 cars are depreciating assets. The exceptions tend to be classic cars. Hence why people talk about getting a new car every 2 years in the same breath as those who spend £50 per month on their mobile phone contract.

Xenia · 01/06/2018 07:14

Those are sensible words from Teacher. Essentially you tend to be happier in life if you can get some kind of contentment with what you have and then seek to improve your circumstances as well as you can (if you are unhappy with them) in those areas of life where it is possible. A lot of things I like in life are free too.

The premise of the thread is not wrong however- that in graduate jobs in London when you are young and starting out and trying to fit in (because you get on if you fit in and it is not wrong to want to fit in) there is huge peer and work pressure to spend money. I hope I've always spoken out when senior about things that might be expensive for those more junior (or in nice firms the richer people/company pay). yes it's fine to take your own lunch into work - pretend it is for a health kick if you want. Yes it's fine either to say you can't contribute to yet another request for contributinos for someone's leaving present by saying a bit hard up this month (or just put £1 in ). Yes, it's fine to have one set of work clothes, not 5. You don't need to show up in a different set of clothes every day nor replace them every few months. It's also fine not to take Ubers when everyone else is and walk or cycle or rush back for the last tube.

Some comfort to the original poster might be that a fair bit of the extra money that friend gets goes back to the state to help the less well off. She isn't keeping the £40k difference between their two salaries. Probabluy about £17k of it is going in tax and national insurance contributions. So yes she does earn more but about 42% of it is being taken from her by the state.

Sprinklesinmyelbow · 01/06/2018 07:15

Well they’re not depreciating assets. They just don’t hold their resale value. Depreciation is a whole different concept Grin

BlueBug45 · 01/06/2018 07:24

@Sprinklesinmyelbow look up the dictionary definition of depreciation.

I guess you have never scrapped a car or sold one on that was scrapped a few years later. Most cars don't become classics even if they aren't written off by accidents.

Sprinklesinmyelbow · 01/06/2018 07:30

I don’t need to. I’m Qualified in it. Depreciation is accounting treatment. Your car doesn’t have depreciation. Unless it’s your company car.

Johnnyfinland · 01/06/2018 08:20

@busybarbara Kensington and Mayfair only "tolerable" 😂😂😂😂😂
I live in London, as do my friends. Nobody lives in Kensington or Mayfair because only a crazy person would think that's the minimum acceptable standard of living. Some people's expectations are way too high. You make your choices with what you can afford, living in east, north or south London in a shared property doesn't negate you having a pleasant and enjoyable life

Heroo · 01/06/2018 08:27

Shes having a right laugh.

£70k in central london with no dependents is an awesome salary.

Even on £45k I was living the life of riley in a zone 1 flat having lots of holidays and eating out all the time! When that went up to £65k even better.

70K is nearly 6 grand a month.

No way. Its just under £4k a month take home after tax and assuming some pension contributions.

Want2bSupermum · 01/06/2018 12:34

sprinkles is 100% correct. The decrease in the value of a car is not depreciation but devaluation. You take an unrealized loss during its use linked to the fair value.

A car is an asset by not an investment because the costs to maintain it are more than the value of the car.

I get an irrational need to correct people who talk about expenditures as investments. It's predatory IMO and should be banned. I would assume the friend of the OP is someone who doesn't understand investments vs expenses or wants vs needs. In the early 2000s I was earning about £80k between 3 jobs. It was how I was able to save a huge deposit in about 18 months on my flat which cost £250k back then.

user1470055656 · 01/06/2018 13:50

It’s not all about income. My husband and I have a combined salary of around £250k in London. Two kids. Childcare etc. Absolutely enormous mortgage to live in a small 3 bed. We’re not skint but we we’re not loaded because of our mortgage. Best friend couple has combined income of £60k in london. They work low paid jobs because they can afford to. parents bought them a huge house. No mortgage. No kids. I’d say we have roughly the same amount of money to play with. As I said, it’s not just about income.

Jux · 01/06/2018 17:21

If she's renting it's usually more expensive than a mortgage (didn't used to be so, but times change). The major advantage in renting is that it is easier to move when you find a cheaper place.

I always lived south of the River as rents were so much less and I could walk or cycle into work quite easily (West End/Parliament/London Bridge). I was in Waterloo, 2 minutes walk from the station but it's much more expensive now, back then it was run down and reputedly dangerous (I never found it so though).

Your friend has made choices which look like they are bound up in the image she wants to project; many people do that, and if they want to that's fine. Image was never important to me (very obvious if you knew me in rl!).

Museumland · 02/06/2018 22:56

I don't think your friend us suggesting she is poor but that she has very little disposable income after bills and life style choices such as living in central London. I live in central London and love it but I do know that to do so on my income it means I have to make some sacrifices. I earn a bit more than your friend and have a really demanding job. I do sometimes say I can't do things because I am skint meaning I can't responsibly spend more money this month.

Bumblealong1 · 02/06/2018 23:10

@Hotpinkparade
I am genuinely curious, how do you live well off £45k in zone 2 london? This is a task I struggle with!
Do you have normal london price rental or mortgage?!

Hotpinkparade · 02/06/2018 23:12

@Bumblealong1 Mortgage is about £800 a month (we had help with deposit).

Hotpinkparade · 02/06/2018 23:14

@Bumblealong1 (sorry posted too soon!) so that’s less than when we were renting. That leaves over £3k a month for bills, food, all other expenses. We spend about £600 on food and eating out, then council tax, bills etc etc, save up for two or three holidays a year... We keep an eye on what we’re spending but it isn’t a stretch really!

KingJohnumLovesPringles · 03/06/2018 07:10

Since when was 30K seen as a low paid job? Even in London Confused

harshbuttrue1980 · 03/06/2018 07:39

Hotpink, you might have been skint if you had had no help with your deposit. Of course incomes are going to stretch further for people who have access to the bank of mum and dad.

Sprinklesinmyelbow · 03/06/2018 08:07

Also I think a lot of people on this thread are basing their responses on their experience of central London or London in general some time ago. We don’t always live in London- we rent our property out and have periods there and away- and it has changed enourmously in the last 3/4 years, it’s almost entirely a rich mans playground now. I too remember when places like Waterloo, elephant and castle, oval etc were “edgy”. No more

Hotpinkparade · 03/06/2018 10:47

@harshbuttrue1980 if by ‘bank of Mum and dad’ you mean ‘both of my partner’s parents dead before he left his teens’ then I guess you’ve caught me out, you clever thing!

Sprinklesinmyelbow · 03/06/2018 10:49

Tbf though hot pink £800 a month is a very average monthly repayment and doesn’t really reflect that you’ve bought in one of the most expensive cities in the world. You’d be paying similar in half the country, yet you earn more from working in London. I think that matters

kirinm · 03/06/2018 10:51

When I first moved to London and moved in with my Dp we had a combined income of about £70k and we weren't skint skint but had to watch money very carefully. Our rent was nearly £2k a month and I'm still paying £500 a month in student loans with other debts accrued before I qualified. I can imagine a single person on £70k feeling like they're struggling but really it's a fantastic salary.

Hotpinkparade · 03/06/2018 10:55

@Sprinklesinmyyelbow I’m really not sure we earn more because we live in London! One of us is on £30k (working in a private care job paid by the hour, so salary is relatively high due to long hours worked) and the other is in academia, on £17k a year. So not exactly flashy London-weighting jobs?!

Sprinklesinmyelbow · 03/06/2018 10:57

The vast majority of roles will have London weighting, certainly the academia one will. You may not notice it (when I earned 30k my London weighting was about £1800 a month) but it will be there. Minimum wage probably being the exception

Sprinklesinmyelbow · 03/06/2018 10:57

£1800 a month 🤣 £1800 a YEAR

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