To think you are not skint on £70k, even in Central London??

[LottaLou]

Just had a ridiculous conversation with a friend who lives and works in Central London. She is in digital marketing, which is a field where salaries can vary significantly, so until now I had no idea what kind of salary she might be on. She is single and childfree, so no dependants.

She always complains that she does not have enough money to do this and do that, how skint she is at the end of the month, they should pay her more for her job and so on. I usually listen to her and sympathize, as I have had money problems in the past, and I know how tough it can be.

Well today she (accidentally) revealed to me that she is on bloody £70k, which is more than twice my salary!! I am stunned as I genuiney thought she was on some "barely above NMW" money, given how often she complains about being skint!

I love her dearly and I will always be her friend, but AIBU to tell her to STFU the next time she starts complaining about being skint?

WittyJack

That mantra is very popular round here however I have some acquaintances who are forking out for prep specifically to prep the child for a grammer place. They think it’s a better economic option & also that it will increase their chances of an Oxbridge place. I just cannot fathom planning my 3 yr olds education so far in advance.

Apologies Witty - Maybe I have missed your point.

Seems like we both agree re choices

*You can easily feel skint as £70k after tax is comfortable, but it's not rich, and it doesn't go all that far if you're paying a lot in rent/trying to keep up with friends/colleagues/going out a lot because you're single.

But you're not skint. Far from it. You're making choices to spend all your money and that's a v different thing, which the OP's friend has failed utterly to grasp. That was my point.*

Agreed

You can easily feel skint as £70k after tax is comfortable, but it's not rich, and it doesn't go all that far if you're paying a lot in rent/trying to keep up with friends/colleagues/going out a lot because you're single.

My point is its bloody insulting to those who survive on for example 16,000 a year wages topped up with WTC/UC to ever claim they 'feel' skint' 70, 000, no matter what the basic outgoings, is a high earner.

I suppose people are interpreting "skint" in different ways. I do see Tiddlie's point about feeling skint

If you've been there with the never ending burden of poverty on your back, working all hours and not having enough to eat; let alone pay to better your job with a college course, losing sleep every night worrying about how to pay your bills, waking up every morning and carrying on that treadmill with nothing to look forward to, no treats or holiday, and no way out of your situation then for someone with considerable money to start glibly complaining about feeling skint is a slap in the face.

It's an insensitive comment to make that's for sure.

No, I didn't make it very clearly if I had to go on and explain it, I guess!!

I completely agree. It's how you interpret the word "skint". And if you are the kind of person who chooses to spend it all and then complain at the end of the month, you may well also be the kind of person who doesn't get it. I certainly wasn't, and even though I was young, I was old enough to know better. As I said, I've grown up a bit since!!

This is why in RL I never talk about our income. It's all relative and some people are just not good at budgeting. We live well below our means which is a choice I'm very happy with.

I can see how someone working in marketing and living in central London could have a hard time on £70k a year. After taxes it's not a huge amount when housing costs are insane for a single person living on their own. However, your friend needs to get her head out of the clouds and back in reality. She should be aware of her audience and aware that the vast majority don't earn close to what she makes. It sounds extremely immature to say you are skint on £70k. By all means talk about how you are struggling to budget so you can save but you can't say you are skint.

My view is that its definitely choices.

I live in London, I’m on 30 something, my partner is on 70k. I was out of work for 4 months and we still paid the rent (1700) bills, travel and had loads of disposable income. We never felt skint and never had to worry about the fact I was out of work, which is incredibly lucky and I’m very grateful for that. I don’t understand how anyone of that salary can say they are skint. Especially single without children. It’s a lifestyle choice. They could easily not be.

1700 is still pretty hight for London rent. you can pay £1400 quite easily for a one bed flat . £70k is about £4k a month before deducting for any student loan so after your rent and council tax you probably still khave £2500 for travel, heating, clothes. If you share with a partner then everything halves too in terms of expenses.

As for school fees that just depends on your priorities. There are couples (not in inner London) where the mother doesn't work and husband earns say £20k and the mother then goes back to full time work at the minimum wage and all that wages covers one set of school fees.

No there aren't.

1700 is still pretty hight for London rent. you can pay £1400 quite easily for a one bed flat

Yeah, definitely. £1,700 is rent on our 2 bed. And we were still comfortable when I was out of work. Anyone saying they are skint on 70k just has an incorrect view of the word, and world. You aren't 'skint' if you've spent all your money having fun.

She doesn't sound skint so much as she sounds like she's bad at managing her money.

She's completely out of touch! I left London a couple years ago. I always felt a bit broke but it wasn't that bad and I was on £35k. Single no kids.

Even if she lives on her own and rent is £2k she still has £2k left to play with for transport, food and fun! Sounds like she has a money management problem! Perhaps she's eating out loads and lots of social drinking etc. I can see how it would be easy to blow through that kind of money in London but she needs to get a grip.

I agree it might be relative to where you live, but I do not think that it is relative to your outgoings, that is of course a lifestyle choice.

And, no, please, don't say you can be skint on 200k

£200k is £10k a month before £2 - £4k a month childcare costs and your £1400 rent. So let us assume two central London babies in full time inner London good nursery and £1400 a month rent that leaves our happy couple spending about £5k on childcare and rent and having £5k a month spare after tax (assuming no student loan) - I assuming here one of them earns £200k and the other doesn't or it is a single parent without a paying absent parent.

So £200k should be fine in most places £120k after tax/NI). Of course most people then buy a property and have a big mortgage and go on more expensive holidays. It has never changed really. We tried very hard when we first had chldren not to increase outgoings too much as income rose but Butlins and Club 18/30 did become Antigua and the terraced hovel in zone 5 did become a detached house.

You can easily feel skint as £70k after tax is comfortable, but it's not rich, and it doesn't go all that far if you're paying a lot in rent/trying to keep up with friends/colleagues/going out a lot because you're single

Well of course you can feel skint if you spend all your money

If she had 2 or 3 kids, and that was household income, in London that could be skint territory, absolutely. But for a single person? She needs to change her customary supplier, because whatever she's smoking is rendering her delusional.

2 people earning 35k will take home more plus be entitled to child benefit.

That's not really relevant. The OP clearly states that her friend is single and childless. She is therefore better off, by definition, than people needing to split that income between at least 3, even if she is in a higher tax bracket.

YANBU. I live in London with dh and one dc. We have a combined income of less than 70k, yet we still live very comfortably- savings, pensions, extra curricular activities and three foreign holidays a year. No debt beyond our mortgage. 70k is plenty.

YANBU. She should get a life.
Try being a teacher, nurse etc in London on significantly less than half of that and still having to rent there.
70k is a pretty decent whack for one person however you look at it.

I sometimes people are really saying "I don't feel as rich as I thought I would on this income". £70K is a very good income and so most people would expect to live in luxury as a single person on that amount. However, if they choose to live in an expensive part of a very expensive city and eat out regularly etc. that money won't last as long as they might expect.

I think it is ridiculous that she is moaning about it and needs to recognise that she has made choices that impact on her disposable income and is lucky to have those choices.
I am the well off one in my family and it would be spectacularly crass of me to moan about the cost of living in London or school fees or whatever to my family or friends. Those things are all my choices and I am fortunate to be in a position to choose.

I think there are millions of people living in London on good salaries who feel skint, even though they're not, because London makes you feel like that. Living there you are surrounded by lots of very wealthy people and lots of opportunities to spend money.

I lived in London 16 years ago - I was earning 1200 a month, but my rent (including bills) was only 300 a month. I lived close enough to walk to work so I had no transport costs. I had 900 a month to spend on me. I've never had that amount since, but I've never felt so poor as when I lived there.

Well yes, Miggeldy - that's exactly the point - and why the OP is NBU, but her friend is!

It's easy to feel skint when you get used to spending. What you really need is a reality check!

I understand how you feel and I understand how she feels. As someone who is not brilliant at managing money, no matter what my salary is or has been, I have always worried about money and felt like I couldn’t afford to do things I want to. There is constant guilt at spending on things and running out at the end of the month. I haven’t been on as much as your friend, granted, but I can still understand why she is complaining about not having enough money if she isn’t managing it well. If you were my friend though and you nicely pointed out to me that I was on a good deal more than you and it was a bit annoying that I was moaning about being skint, it would make me re-think my attitude I think so maybe you should say something to her.

She's fecked in the head, honestly! I earnt 25k when single with 1 child, got working tax credit and child benefit so let's say 30k. I paid for a mortgage, all household bills, nursery fees and everything else! Your friend just can't budget!!

Oh and I'm London zone 4 So travel alone is 180ish a month!!

70k would be about what I earned (allowing for inflation) in the early 80`s in central London...I had a ball , lived in South Kensington and had no money worries, I am significantly poorer now ,40 years later, in Wiltshire after putting two children through university etc..and that's with grammar school educations...thank God !!
I think it is all about what your contemporaries have and your expectations..